2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

[Edax]

Has no one here driven a powerful RWD car in inclement weather? You start in 2nd gear to minimize wheel spin and have a more controlled launch.

If anything, I would’ve expected Bottas’ use of 2nd to be safer. Not the opposite.

Yes I have, but I usually try to maximize wheelspin. Which indeed implies avoiding the higher gears.

[zibby43]

Has no one here driven a powerful RWD car in inclement weather? You start in 2nd gear to minimize wheel spin and have a more controlled launch.

If anything, I would’ve expected Bottas’ use of 2nd to be safer. Not the opposite.

Yes I have, but I usually try to maximize wheelspin. Which indeed implies avoiding the higher gears.

I think you may have missed the “in inclement weather” caveat.

In regular conditions, maximizing wheelspin is fun, but it definitely isn’t fast

[langedweil]

It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

... or backing up backwards from the gravel onto a track with live racing going on ..

[Edax]

Has no one here driven a powerful RWD car in inclement weather? You start in 2nd gear to minimize wheel spin and have a more controlled launch.

If anything, I would’ve expected Bottas’ use of 2nd to be safer. Not the opposite.

Yes I have, but I usually try to maximize wheelspin. Which indeed implies avoiding the higher gears.

I think you may have missed the “in inclement weather” caveat.

In regular conditions, maximizing wheelspin is fun, but it definitely isn’t fast

Actually I was picturing a nice whiteout. And I said nothing about being fast

But you’re right. I think the idea of Merc was to get a cleaner launch with less wheelspin and somewhere that went wrong.

[dans79]

Since several posts have disappeared, I'll post this abbreviated and condensed response!

Bottas and his team are idiots trying to pull away in second gear to speed up the process.

I was responding to the above, as it's reads like the user in question was suggesting it was dumb or exceedingly dangerous to do. Thus, I used A known point of reference to show that it was not.

As I mentioned in my last post (now removed), It does comes with a greater risk of spinning up the tires, but that was the intent, and something we see quite regularly.

Bottas lost control either because his steering angle was to great, or as di Resta pondered, the painted lines might have been damp.

[darkpino]

I wonder if they made a mistake regarding the first gear ratio then. It doesn’t really make sense to me to start from standstill in dry conditions in second gear

[aMessageToCharlie]

There is a big difference between a race start and a pit stop. Perhaps they should introduce a race start limiter to drive towards the first corner at 60 or 80kmh if they are the same. A race start happens on an empty piece of tarmac (except the other competitors) and everyone aims to get up to speed as quick as they can.

This might actually happen if Merc starts to consistently lose out to RBR at race starts

Dont give them ideas.

[ispano6]

If they were Mercedes' muppets then why did they complain ? Useless indeed.....
or Mercedes should get 4 cars like redbull so they can block their competition in the pitlane.

Dude you see, there is the real you and totally not biased And GL, you can have the last word if that makes you happy.

Everyone are biased here for their own agenda, I never claimed to be not, so stop discussing me and come to topic.

I think it's not a 3 place drop worthy mistake.
It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

That is a stretch and completely different setting. There weren't any pit crew or marshals in harms way. Max has nothing to do with Botta's indiscretion in peeling out in the pitlane and potentially hitting pitcrews.

[dans79]

I wonder if they made a mistake regarding the first gear ratio then. It doesn’t really make sense to me to start from standstill in dry conditions in second gear

In second you would be able to spin the tires up to a higher rpm, thus putting more heat into them. They might also want to avoid a gear change even if it equates to a miniscule amount of time.

[TNTHead]

What are standing waves?

Read/watch this.
https://www.f1technical.net/development ... s-in-tyres

a standing wave is a vibration pattern in (for instance) the tyre (or in another medium) where the oscillation matches (in the case of a tyre) exactly with the circumferential speed causing an 'in phase' oscillation, amplifying the oscillation. It's sort of an eigen frequency, occurring at specific speeds.

This is one of the many thing tyre designers try to smooth out, which is not entirely possible. At first hand you cannot say it is a design flaw, but with excessive standing wave it might be.

[siskue2005]

Dude you see, there is the real you and totally not biased And GL, you can have the last word if that makes you happy.

Everyone are biased here for their own agenda, I never claimed to be not, so stop discussing me and come to topic.

I think it's not a 3 place drop worthy mistake.
It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

That is a stretch and completely different setting. There weren't any pit crew or marshals in harms way. Max has nothing to do with Botta's indiscretion in peeling out in the pitlane and potentially hitting pitcrews.

It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

... or backing up backwards from the gravel onto a track with live racing going on ..

Are you guys lost or something? Or my English is not clear? Sorry English is not much first language.
All I was saying is that it will be equally ridiculous if they punished Max in imola, same as Bottas today... both were driver errors not worth any punishment
Jeez it looks like everyone here are so defensive and touchy, looks like a kindergarten to me.

[Wouter]

All I was saying is that it will be equally ridiculous if they punished Max in imola, same as Bottas today... both were driver errors not worth any punishment
Jeez it looks like everyone here are so defensive and touchy, looks like a kindergarten to me.

What Bottas did today in such a small space full of people was not a driver error.

It was a conscious choice on his part to start in second gear, while normally you always drive out of there in first gear.

[siskue2005]

There is a big difference between a race start and a pit stop. Perhaps they should introduce a race start limiter to drive towards the first corner at 60 or 80kmh if they are the same. A race start happens on an empty piece of tarmac (except the other competitors) and everyone aims to get up to speed as quick as they can.

This might actually happen if Merc starts to consistently lose out to RBR at race starts

Dont give them ideas.

Don't worry Merc got their ideas from Red bull and Co from previous years when they protested and banned their innovations like Brake ducts, DAS, Mid season Qualy mod bans, wheel rim bans etc etc..
So it's just pay back from Mercedes now

[siskue2005]

All I was saying is that it will be equally ridiculous if they punished Max in imola, same as Bottas today... both were driver errors not worth any punishment
Jeez it looks like everyone here are so defensive and touchy, looks like a kindergarten to me.

What Bottas did today in such a small space full of people was not a driver error.

It was a conscious choice on his part to start in second gear, while normally you always drive out of there in first gear.

Was Bottoas spin into other teams pit space a conscious decision too?

[ispano6]

Everyone are biased here for their own agenda, I never claimed to be not, so stop discussing me and come to topic.

I think it's not a 3 place drop worthy mistake.
It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

That is a stretch and completely different setting. There weren't any pit crew or marshals in harms way. Max has nothing to do with Botta's indiscretion in peeling out in the pitlane and potentially hitting pitcrews.

It's like punishing Max for his spin just before safety car start which could have been dangerous and taken out few drivers behind him.

... or backing up backwards from the gravel onto a track with live racing going on ..

Are you guys lost or something? Or my English is not clear? Sorry English is not much first language.
All I was saying is that it will be equally ridiculous if they punished Max in imola, same as Bottas today... both were driver errors not worth any punishment
Jeez it looks like everyone here are so defensive and touchy, looks like a kindergarten to me.

No, your comparison is of two completely different things. Max's spin is not at all a safety issue, Bottas' was. Bottas incident could be reasonably punishable to avoid a recurrence.