2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

[Sieper]

Wasn’t it the moment that Lewis almost lost the car (but with incredibly quick reflexes and maximum steer correction at the exact right moment managed to catch it) when he went wide in corner 4 (exactly in the dirty air zone of a Haas I believe) where the gap suddenly increased from 5.2 to 6.2?

[PlatinumZealot]

Wasn’t it the moment that Lewis almost lost the car (but with incredibly quick reflexes and maximum steer correction at the exact right moment managed to catch it) when he went wide in corner 4 (exactly in the dirty air zone of a Haas I believe) where the gap suddenly increased from 5.2 to 6.2?

No. He lost about 1.5 tenth for that. It wasnt a slide. The car was about to step out but he caught it. Rear tyres couldn't give any more. Same issue throughout the weekend.

When the gap grew to six it was when they were chasing through traffic.

[cooken]

Wasn’t it the moment that Lewis almost lost the car (but with incredibly quick reflexes and maximum steer correction at the exact right moment managed to catch it) when he went wide in corner 4 (exactly in the dirty air zone of a Haas I believe) where the gap suddenly increased from 5.2 to 6.2?

No. That was during the first stint, on lap 25. The gap went from ~4.8 to ~5.2.

[Sieper]

Wasn’t it the moment that Lewis almost lost the car (but with incredibly quick reflexes and maximum steer correction at the exact right moment managed to catch it) when he went wide in corner 4 (exactly in the dirty air zone of a Haas I believe) where the gap suddenly increased from 5.2 to 6.2?

No. He lost about 1.5 tenth for that. It wasnt a slide. The car was about to step out but he caught it. Rear tyres couldn't give any more. Same issue throughout the weekend.

When the gap grew to six it was when they were chasing through traffic.

“It wasn’t a slide”. Why do you say that? I didn’t say it was a slide. You always seem to need to disagree even if there is none. And if you rewatch the moment you will see he was exactly in the dirty air distance (of the I believe Haas of MSC) He couldn’t do anything about that but I have seen time and again that if you are at that distance and it is a corner where your car is on the limit that it gives problems. Usually not direct behind but a bit further down. This is not an attack at Lewis, he could do nothing to prevent it. Just bad luck the backmarker was there.

[mkay]

I was more than a little surprised by the gap between Verstappen en Hamilton, even before the latter pitted for the fastest lap run. 15 seconds or so? That RBR is quicker than I thought.

Schnooze of a race, though.

Hamilton has been behind Max for quite a few laps the same time. When he saw that he could no longer overtake him, he slowed down and the gap quickly widened. The actual gap was not 15 sec, but much smaller.

Not sure about that. Max was very clearly managing the gap in the first stint and still got the gap up to over 6 seconds.

I think the true gap was probably around 12-14 seconds (he was 17-18 seconds behind when he pitted), I reckon. Red Bull were surprisingly strong on the hards, and Merc lost rear grip early on in the stint.

I checked sector times during the race, and HAM seemed to lose most in Sector 2 which involves 2 rear-limited corners - suggests to me most of the gap is down to tyre management/pace rather than tuning down the PU.

[ringo]

I've got a hunch Hamilton is driving at the limit to a greater degree than max. More so in managing the tyres and compensating for the car's instability. I must say Lewis has been impressive. Max a bit boring i guess. Not really seeing him work any magic. His car is too good and it's not really needed for him to go balls to the wall. Not to say he isnt delivering. Max is doing what theyre paying him to do.
But if Lewis gets an equal car, he will deal more damage on the track in terms of race craft.

And that my friend is exactly what RBR and Fer have experienced over the last decade .. it's a whole lot easier when you're ahead in free air, driving @ 90% of your driver/car capability, compared to having to race up until %100 where you can only hope for some scraps left on the table.
Lew has been very good over the years, but not as good as a lot of ppl tend to believe ..

It's not the same. Over the years you didnt have a budget cap or had your car targeted for its weaknesses and rules made to stop you.
And Ferrari had the best car for 2 years. Their issues was their driver spinning and crashing out at low speeds.
Redbull Max was never really driving at 100% back then. He wasnt threatened by his teammate and the midfield was way behind.
He would just cruise around and collect 3rd place. Before then he was crashing all over the place. Much different story today.
Things are closer now, and im talking about the head to head. I don't mind RB being the faster car. I still think Lewis just needs to be within 2 tenths of the redbull to beat them, as he has already done at Bahrain. But what im concerned about is that Mercedes are not allowed to respond basically. The past has never been like this. The teams were limited by themselves. Now theyre stuck with 2020 chassis that they cannot change. But anyhow lets hope the team finds some pace despite being handicapped at the floor.

[Sieper]

Max his engineer also came on the radio in the beginning second stint. These are the crucial laps for tire life. Max could have invested his 5 seconds there but he hung with Lewis (went down to 4.1 as a minimum I think) as he wanted to keep out of undercut range I expect. And that early push cost the mercs their white tires. Bottas later on said as much “that push cooked my tires”. But he still kept Perez behind.

[ringo]

And look at Max’ previous achievements here. Even in years when the car was clearly behind.

Um no check the history. Mercedes has had engine temperature issues that has hampered them. We saw the same with Danny Ric this race. Redbull took advantage of that as well as tyre deg i think in another year. Its good Max and RB took advantage of those issues nonetheless.

[El Scorchio]

I was more than a little surprised by the gap between Verstappen en Hamilton, even before the latter pitted for the fastest lap run. 15 seconds or so? That RBR is quicker than I thought.

Schnooze of a race, though.

Hamilton has been behind Max for quite a few laps the same time. When he saw that he could no longer overtake him, he slowed down and the gap quickly widened. The actual gap was not 15 sec, but much smaller.

Not sure about that. Max was very clearly managing the gap in the first stint and still got the gap up to over 6 seconds.

I think the true gap was probably around 12-14 seconds (he was 17-18 seconds behind when he pitted), I reckon. Red Bull were surprisingly strong on the hards, and Merc lost rear grip early on in the stint.

I checked sector times during the race, and HAM seemed to lose most in Sector 2 which involves 2 rear-limited corners - suggests to me most of the gap is down to tyre management/pace rather than tuning down the PU.

Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.

[aMessageToCharlie]

It was ~6/10ths he lost in the middle sector iirc. Oversteered onto the dirt with the left rear and almost ended up in the gravel.

Btw Bottas was trailing behind Mazepin just one lap earlier without losing the car, so I wouldn't necessarily say that he couldnt have done anything about it.

[Sieper]

And look at Max’ previous achievements here. Even in years when the car was clearly behind.

Um no check the history. Mercedes has had engine temperature issues that has hampered them. We saw the same with Danny Ric this race. Redbull took advantage of that as well as tyre deg i think in another year. Its good Max and RB took advantage of those issues nonetheless.

There are other Cars Max kept behind in a redbull here. I think that yes, especially in the Honda years they likely invested some engine life in a good result here (that would actually be my side note) but still, I think Max did very well here. Better than Lewis as evidenced also by f.e the qualy record. Just last race Bottas outqualified Lewis. Who had 3 attempts.

[Sieper]

It was ~6/10ths he lost in the middle sector iirc. Oversteered onto the dirt with the left rear and almost ended up in the gravel.

Btw Bottas was trailing behind Mazepin just one lap earlier without losing the car, so I wouldn't necessarily say that he couldnt have done anything about it.

The dirty air imho is a bit of a --- show, either you are fine or you just get a massive pocket of turbulence. Especially that medium distance always seems to deliver a potential problem (imho from my own eyes watching, no data).

[Sieper]

Hamilton has been behind Max for quite a few laps the same time. When he saw that he could no longer overtake him, he slowed down and the gap quickly widened. The actual gap was not 15 sec, but much smaller.

Not sure about that. Max was very clearly managing the gap in the first stint and still got the gap up to over 6 seconds.

I think the true gap was probably around 12-14 seconds (he was 17-18 seconds behind when he pitted), I reckon. Red Bull were surprisingly strong on the hards, and Merc lost rear grip early on in the stint.

I checked sector times during the race, and HAM seemed to lose most in Sector 2 which involves 2 rear-limited corners - suggests to me most of the gap is down to tyre management/pace rather than tuning down the PU.

Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.

I think (in hindsight the race was won at the start already, when Lewis had a little wobble from being directly behind Max in turn 1 (again, no criticism, just logical he was there) as a result he could not get into the slipstream up the hill and Max was gone.

[El Scorchio]

Not sure about that. Max was very clearly managing the gap in the first stint and still got the gap up to over 6 seconds.

I think the true gap was probably around 12-14 seconds (he was 17-18 seconds behind when he pitted), I reckon. Red Bull were surprisingly strong on the hards, and Merc lost rear grip early on in the stint.

I checked sector times during the race, and HAM seemed to lose most in Sector 2 which involves 2 rear-limited corners - suggests to me most of the gap is down to tyre management/pace rather than tuning down the PU.

Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.

I think (in hindsight the race was won at the start already, when Lewis had a little wobble from being directly behind Max in turn 1 (again, no criticism, just logical he was there) as a result he could not get into the slipstream up the hill and Max was gone.

I'm not sure it mattered much TBH. He may have managed to stay within DRS for a lap or two, but that's all that would have been different.

[Sieper]

Exactly. I don't believe Verstappen really had to push very hard all race, aside from the first couple of laps to get out of DRS range. (Didn't he make 1.5 seconds on lap 1?) It was an absolute walk in the park.

I think (in hindsight the race was won at the start already, when Lewis had a little wobble from being directly behind Max in turn 1 (again, no criticism, just logical he was there) as a result he could not get into the slipstream up the hill and Max was gone.

I'm not sure it mattered much TBH. He may have managed to stay within DRS for a lap or two, but that's all that would have been different.

I agree, but since that did not happen, and in hindsight, that is already where the gap got created that proved to be insurmountable.