2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[NathanOlder]

He slowed down on purpose for sure, just to not risk anything, it's obvious.
Max's and Lewis's front right tyre were looking excatly the same.

They were indeed. One possible advantage for the Merc was, Max seemed to be the only driver on the grid to do this is clean air. Lewis spent the whole race between 1-2 seconds behind Max other than the final couple of laps. Blistering is much more likely for the following car.

Matt b, Gianpiero Lambiase even called it in to Max in the radio, 2 laps from the end, you have a 3 second gap, stay off the kerbs please. That is why Lewis came back, Max had a time gap to “use” on trying to prevent a possible tire rip. Lewis was chasing full out, despite similar tire issues.

What are you saying ? I am saying Max and Lewis both blistered their tyres, only difference was Lewis spent the whole race in dirty air, while max was in clean air. Theres a difference. Or are you saying thats not correct ?

[i70q7m7ghw]

They were indeed. One possible advantage for the Merc was, Max seemed to be the only driver on the grid to do this is clean air. Lewis spent the whole race between 1-2 seconds behind Max other than the final couple of laps. Blistering is much more likely for the following car.

Matt b, Gianpiero Lambiase even called it in to Max in the radio, 2 laps from the end, you have a 3 second gap, stay off the kerbs please. That is why Lewis came back, Max had a time gap to “use” on trying to prevent a possible tire rip. Lewis was chasing full out, despite similar tire issues.

What are you saying ? I am saying Max and Lewis both blistered their tyres, only difference was Lewis spent the whole race in dirty air, while max was in clean air. Theres a difference. Or are you saying thats not correct ?

The blistering is more a result of overheating, mostly caused by the higher track temps. Following in the dirty air certainly won't help, but I would expect Merc to have suffered blistering even if they were in clean air.

EDIT: Lewis also said they are running the highest tyre pressures he's ever known, presumably because Pirelli is paranoid about tyre failures. The higher pressures will also contribute to the overheating of the tyres.

[bosyber]

Matt b, Gianpiero Lambiase even called it in to Max in the radio, 2 laps from the end, you have a 3 second gap, stay off the kerbs please. That is why Lewis came back, Max had a time gap to “use” on trying to prevent a possible tire rip. Lewis was chasing full out, despite similar tire issues.

What are you saying ? I am saying Max and Lewis both blistered their tyres, only difference was Lewis spent the whole race in dirty air, while max was in clean air. Theres a difference. Or are you saying thats not correct ?

The blistering is more a result of overheating, mostly caused by the higher track temps. Following in the dirty air certainly won't help, but I would expect Merc to have suffered blistering even if they were in clean air.

From the amount of blistering both Verstappen and Hamilton had I do agree that it seems unlikely either wouldn't have suffered blisters had they been at a different position on track; as you say the temperature, and maybe that they were pushing a harder pace than usually after a race start, because they had less fuel (even though that also meant the tyres were not loaded by a full-fuel weight).

[cooken]

Why would higher pressures categorically lead to overheating? Common convention is lower pressures allow more flex which generates more temperature.

I find the blistering on the front right actually pretty weird. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fast left T2 and then trail braking into Brooklands?

[NathanOlder]

Well the only data we have was 2 mercedes running, 1 that was following close to another car suffered blistering, the one in free air didnt. Add to that the 44 is 9/10 times better on tyres than the 77. RedBull we only saw Max and as Perez stuffed his own race up early on.

[cooken]

True but 77 was on a different compound. Both 33 and 44 had exactly the same thing so I'm less inclined to think it was mostly due to following (that likely just compounded it). Recall also that 44 had the exact same thing in FP1, not sure how much traffic he had, but it also happened later into the stint.

Was there reports of any others on mediums with front right blistering? I only remember the top 2 being pointed out by commentary. Maybe nobody else was going fast enough...

[i70q7m7ghw]

Why would higher pressures categorically lead to overheating? Common convention is lower pressures allow more flex which generates more temperature.

I find the blistering on the front right actually pretty weird. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fast left T2 and then trail braking into Brooklands?

I don't think anyone said, "higher pressures categorically lead to overheating". However, lower pressures might add some heat through sidewall flex, but would potentially reduce the surface temp as it can reduce sliding/scrubbing the surface of the tyre. Higher pressures will stiffen the tyre, reducing the flex and causing the tyre to scrub a bit more, which will increase the surface temp. It's the surface temp that can cause blistering, not the internal tyre temp.

[cooken]

Why would higher pressures categorically lead to overheating? Common convention is lower pressures allow more flex which generates more temperature.

I find the blistering on the front right actually pretty weird. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fast left T2 and then trail braking into Brooklands?

I don't think anyone said, "higher pressures categorically lead to overheating". However, lower pressures might add some heat through sidewall flex, but would potentially reduce the surface temp as it can reduce sliding/scrubbing the surface of the tyre. Higher pressures will stiffen the tyre, reducing the flex and causing the tyre to scrub a bit more, which will increase the surface temp. It's the surface temp that can cause blistering, not the internal tyre temp.

Well you did give a pretty general statement about higher pressures so to me it seemed implied but I get your reasoning.

I still kind of disagree though. The higher pressure might give more scrub but then will also give less grip, so drivers will have to go slower for a given corner.

I always thought blistering came mostly from internal temp...?

I still maintain its the combined braking and cornering load. Brakes pumping lots of heat into the rim/tyre while also turning. The front left doesn't really see that kind of load anywhere on the lap. Maybe T3 but that's definitely less severe than T6. Other high load right hand corners are mostly on throttle.

[TimW]

Why would higher pressures categorically lead to overheating? Common convention is lower pressures allow more flex which generates more temperature.

I find the blistering on the front right actually pretty weird. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fast left T2 and then trail braking into Brooklands?

I don't think anyone said, "higher pressures categorically lead to overheating". However, lower pressures might add some heat through sidewall flex, but would potentially reduce the surface temp as it can reduce sliding/scrubbing the surface of the tyre. Higher pressures will stiffen the tyre, reducing the flex and causing the tyre to scrub a bit more, which will increase the surface temp. It's the surface temp that can cause blistering, not the internal tyre temp.

Well you did give a pretty general statement about higher pressures so to me it seemed implied but I get your reasoning.

I still kind of disagree though. The higher pressure might give more scrub but then will also give less grip, so drivers will have to go slower for a given corner.

I always thought blistering came mostly from internal temp...?

I still maintain its the combined braking and cornering load. Brakes pumping lots of heat into the rim/tyre while also turning. The front left doesn't really see that kind of load anywhere on the lap. Maybe T3 but that's definitely less severe than T6. Other high load right hand corners are mostly on throttle.

Blistering is from high surface temperatures/high temperature gradients. With high pressures less heat is generated by deformation of the tire, so you have to put more energy into the tire by surface temperature and brake heat.

[djones]

I have a sneaky feeling Bottas might win today.

The reason is I can see Max and Lewis both trying their best to do the 1-stop, which will be a failure. Meanwhile, Bottas will be putting in a lot of pace on the 2-stop and 2x fresh mediums.

[Big Tea]

Silverstone is a strange track in some ways as not only is the surface very dark and dense, which means lots of transfer into the tyres, but beneath the track is thousands of tons of broken concrete from clearance of the original site so it is heat store in some places and not others. there are also several 'lost' streams below somewhere so heating is always going to be a difficult thing to handle

[Sieper]

They were indeed. One possible advantage for the Merc was, Max seemed to be the only driver on the grid to do this is clean air. Lewis spent the whole race between 1-2 seconds behind Max other than the final couple of laps. Blistering is much more likely for the following car.

Matt b, Gianpiero Lambiase even called it in to Max in the radio, 2 laps from the end, you have a 3 second gap, stay off the kerbs please. That is why Lewis came back, Max had a time gap to “use” on trying to prevent a possible tire rip. Lewis was chasing full out, despite similar tire issues.

What are you saying ? I am saying Max and Lewis both blistered their tyres, only difference was Lewis spent the whole race in dirty air, while max was in clean air. Theres a difference. Or are you saying thats not correct ?

I was replying to Matt b. He said Lewis was closing in at the end and he thought this was because Max’ tires were in a worse state. I merely explained this was actually discussed over the team radio with his engineer, they stayed off the kerbs the last two lap, investing the 3 second lead Max had. As they both had blistered tires and Max could afford to reduce the risk of a blowout in the last laps as he was 3 seconds ahead. Lewis did not have that luxury and had to keep pushing to take advantage of a potential max slip up or issue.

I am not disagreeing with you at all in that post and struggle to understand why you would think that? I do think a little differently about the reason for blistering, see reply hereunder.

[Slo Poke]

Blisters are the result of previously inflicted tyre damage, most probably caused by rough kerb edges.

If Pirelli were to conduct a quick simple test of the above, all they would need is a Stanley knife and one of the top cars and a top driver to drive it for no more than half a dozen qualifying type laps. Using the Stanley knife scribe the Pirelli logo circumferentially around the tread surface and await the return of the car, the evidence will be plain to anyone.

[Sieper]

Well the only data we have was 2 mercedes running, 1 that was following close to another car suffered blistering, the one in free air didnt. Add to that the 44 is 9/10 times better on tyres than the 77. RedBull we only saw Max and as Perez stuffed his own race up early on.

The number 44 was also pushing all out, like the number 33. The Sum of these two numbers (77) was just cruising as there was nothing to gain or lose for him anymore after Max got away at the start. I think the blistering is from the relentless pushing Max and Lewis were both doing more than any other reason.

[djones]

Blisters are the result of previously inflicted tyre damage, most probably caused by rough kerb edges.

If Pirelli were to conduct a quick simple test of the above, all they would need is a Stanley knife and one of the top cars and a top driver to drive it for no more than half a dozen qualifying type laps. Using the Stanley knife scribe the Pirelli logo circumferentially around the tread surface and await the return of the car, the evidence will be plain to anyone.

Although likely a cause. This is not the primary reason for blisters... surely?