2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[SmallSoldier]

Regardless of who should have given quarter, 3 things are quite evident:

1. Ham's move today was Max's signature move 3 years ago...Karma.
If it was a transgression (which I am not saying it was, I am no steward), 10 seconds is a joke, Ham likely could have made up double that with today's competition.

2. 2021 title fight...whoever is in front had better beware...you will get punted. Not a bad strategy I guess; assure your main competitor gets no points...the survivor can then salvage the day.

3. F1 has 2 great drivers currently, Ham and Max, nobody else seems to have the skills to overtake. Checo made Alb look good this weekend (no easy feat) and Bot was his usual speed-bump self. I believe it is time to start the clamor for Fred to get the other Merc/RB ride.

Ham and Max are giving us quite a show...making my $79 bucks quite worth it. Assuming Masi will step in and quell our enjoyment.

In regards to your first point… That’s a problem when we suddenly want penalties to be based on who the driver is (whether he has a fast car to cover the punishment or not… If it’s for the lead… For the championship, etc)… Penalties should be applied based on the action… Not who or what car is involved


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[NathanOlder]

One thing that I must add and haven't seen mentioned is, A Lot of fans and experts have said Lewis missed the apex.

How could he miss the apex when they never reached the apex. They touched well before to kerb started. Was Lewis meant to hug the white line all the way round?!

[foxmulder_ms]

FIA is in redbull's pocket. 10sec penalty is a travesty decision but it made the *win* even sweeter.

Horner et al are jokes. Their driver is guilty of 10 times more serious offences with much much fewer penalties. Today's incidence was 100% racing incident. Any driver in F1 will tell you so.

"Stewards" saying "Car 44 was not on the kerbs" proves their bias. The contact happened *before* the kerb and Ham's trajectory was perfect to go over the kerb. Max just turned into him.

Anyhow, result was spectacular and Horner's tears made it better.

[foxmulder_ms]

One thing that I must add and haven't seen mentioned is, A Lot of fans and experts have said Lewis missed the apex.

How could he miss the apex when they never reached the apex. They touched well before to kerb started. Was Lewis meant to hug the white line all the way round?!

HAHA we wrote the same thing at the same moment

[Shrieker]

As we’re at it, once the stewards decided that it was Lewis’ fault, why give him such a joke of a penalty? That was a really huge 51g accident and the other driver even had to go to hospital. It could have ended really nasty. IF you think one of the two drivers was to blame, then don’t be a coward but penalize in a proper way.

You gotta read between the lines my friend. Politics are always, always involved when penalties are being decided, whether we like it or not. . To me, it sounded like they thought it was a 50/50 racing incident, and they gave that penalty to stop Red Bull from whinging excessively.

As to the incident itself. Hamilton had every right to be where he was. He blocked the path to the apex, and Max, knowing full well that the path was blocked, expected Lewis to BACK OFF, because he always has bullied him (and others) into backing off; not this time my friend.

About the commentators. Yes they're F1 drivers and champions, and yes they're more knowledgeable than the average fan, but they didn't take the time to do a proper analysis, like Chandok usually does. His' i think, was more balanced. I'm repeating myself here, but if you check the distance between Hamilton's car and the inside white line, you will see it stays pretty much consistent, which tells me, he was not to blame. Or if he was, the majority of the blame wasn't his'. He can try and make sure he doesn't run into Max (which he did), but he can't make sure Max doesn't run into him at the same time.

That's not his job. That's Max's job.

[Edax]

Max did a big mistake :

- he needs to be agressive when he is the underdog

- here he was only on a position to lose something while HAM had everything to win

Max needs to learn how to manage a championship when you are ahead

I think this race will cost him the title, HAM clear favorite now with updated Mercedes and almost no gap in points

Sad for formula 1 2021, a VES title would had been refreshing

I think the stewards report leaves not a shred of doubt. There was nothing he could or should have done differently. Pretty sure he will see it that way and just carry on.

The Merc indeed seems to have solved their floor issues. That may be a big factor going forward, as well as the probability that RB has to replace an engine.

But driving wise I think little will change. Perhaps Hamilton will be more cautious since the stewards have a tendency to judge repeat offenses more harshly.

You misunderstood the word predominantly then. It means more, not entirely.

Actually the correct word would be wholly, not entirely, but I have yet to see the stewards use it.

Look I don’t care who wins the championship. I have been following Hamilton since GP2. His GP2 Turkey comeback is one of my all time favorites. I also find Verstappen an exciting racer, and I want him to have a proper shot at the title. After a borefest of years I am delighted to have some of the best drivers fight it out on track.

But today was simple. Hamilton overcoocked the corner and punted Verstappen of. Verstappen had the advantage and the angle Hamilton didn’t . Verstappen left space but Hamilton needed more. That is what the Stewards report tells.

That happened, as these things happen in racing. It is bad to lose like that, and it is bad to win like that, but there is no way to change it. So we might as well carry on.

[foxmulder_ms]

I think the stewards report leaves not a shred of doubt. There was nothing he could or should have done differently. Pretty sure he will see it that way and just carry on.

The Merc indeed seems to have solved their floor issues. That may be a big factor going forward, as well as the probability that RB has to replace an engine.

But driving wise I think little will change. Perhaps Hamilton will be more cautious since the stewards have a tendency to judge repeat offenses more harshly.

You misunderstood the word predominantly then. It means more, not entirely.

Actually the correct word would be wholly, not entirely, but I have yet to see the stewards use it.

Look I don’t care who wins the championship. I have been following Hamilton since GP2. His GP2 Turkey comeback is one of my all time favorites. I also find Verstappen an exciting racer, and I want him to have a proper shot at the title. After a borefest of years I am delighted to have some of the best drivers fight it out on track.

But today was simple. Hamilton overcoocked the corner and punted Verstappen of. Verstappen had the advantage and the angle Hamilton didn’t . Verstappen left space but Hamilton needed more. That is what the Stewards report tells.

That happened, as these things happen in racing. It is bad to lose like that, and it is bad to win like that, but there is no way to change it. So we might as well carry on.

That is not true. go watch again. If the accident did not happen, Ham would hit the apex perfectly.

[cooken]

I think the apex for that corner is pretty early along the strip of kerbs. His trajectory doesn't seem like it would be taking him any closer to the kerbs either. I think he just slightly missed his turn in and/or had a bit of understeer that set him on a slightly wider line. Basically what Jolyon said, but I think that misjudgment meant that it was 60/40 his fault. 10s penalty was plenty.

[Hoffman900]

Can someone compare Lewis’s line in the first lap vs when he overtook Charles?

It looked like the same trajectory to me, and Lewis hit the apex dead on in the latter.

[Restomaniac]

As we’re at it, once the stewards decided that it was Lewis’ fault, why give him such a joke of a penalty? That was a really huge 51g accident and the other driver even had to go to hospital. It could have ended really nasty. IF you think one of the two drivers was to blame, then don’t be a coward but penalize in a proper way.

You gotta read between the lines my friend. Politics are always, always involved when penalties are being decided, whether we like it or not. . To me, it sounded like they thought it was a 50/50 racing incident, and they gave that penalty to stop Red Bull from whinging excessively.

As to the incident itself. Hamilton had every right to be where he was. He blocked the path to the apex, and Max, knowing full well that the path was blocked, expected Lewis to BACK OFF, because he always has bullied him (and others) into backing off; not this time my friend.

About the commentators. Yes they're F1 drivers and champions, and yes they're more knowledgeable than the average fan, but they didn't take the time to do a proper analysis, like Chandok usually does. His' i think, was more balanced. I'm repeating myself here, but if you check the distance between Hamilton's car and the inside white line, you will see it stays pretty much consistent, which tells me, he was not to blame. Or if he was, the majority of the blame wasn't his'. He can try and make sure he doesn't run into Max (which he did), but he can't make sure Max doesn't run into him at the same time.

That's not his job. That's Max's job.

That’s how read it too. They probably knew the Mercedes stood a good chance of making the time back but they had Horner crying over it so threw him a bone to shut him up.

I agree Verstappen was trying to do the old Senna/Schumacher bully job but the 7 time WDC has had enough of that. Verstappen either figures that out or he is going to have problems when the far more experienced driver keeps coming off better due to have more years on the clock in wheel to wheel banging racing.

[HPD]

The FIA proved Ham wrong. And the people here talking about "karma" and that nonsense.
They only try to hide Ham mistake, the people on this forum lack maturity to admit that Ham did wrong, nothing happens, life goes on, we all make mistakes, including Ham. Stop trying to "justify" he mistake

[Restomaniac]

Can someone compare Lewis’s line in the first lap vs when he overtook Charles?

It looked like the same trajectory to me, and Lewis hit the apex dead on in the latter.

It’s not a like for like comparison. Remember that on the lead up to the corner Hamilton was squeezed far more to his right in the first instance. That changes his AOA for which he then has got give him else more room to make the corner.

[gshevlin]

The incident at this race is over, and now we have to move on. IMHO it was a racing incident, but I give 60% of the blame to Lewis, because he was trying to keep up with Verstappen on an inside line through the corner, which no driver normally takes because it is always slower. He was clearly going to miss the apex and drift left, so the two drivers were almost certain to collide.
Lewis was hyped up, home race, behind in the points, thinking he has a slower car, so this was always on the cards.
What has to happen, however, is that the FIA and the race stewards have to be prepared, if necessary, to be very tough with any driver that attempts to drive an opponent off the track. Their failure to do so in 1990, when Ayrton Senna ran Alain Prost off the road in Suzuka, and admitted to it later, gave the green light to some of the tactics that Michael Schumacher used in his rise to the top of the sport. Sure, Schumacher was docked all of his points in 1997 when he tried to run Villeneuve off the road, but by that time he had picked up and refined the "give way or we crash" attitude of Senna.
The "law of the jungle" attitude may be just what people who think that F1 is gladiatorial want to see, but the reality is that if a driver is seriously injured or killed in an accident caused by over-aggressive driving or a deliberate collision, F1 will wind up with a big black cloud over its reputation. If spectators or non-drivers are injured or killed, multiply that by a factor of n.
We no longer live in the 1970s. The era of the sport being able to shrug its shoulders, say "too bad about X, he was a character", and then start ringing around to find the next replacement is over.

[Hoffman900]

Can someone compare Lewis’s line in the first lap vs when he overtook Charles?

It looked like the same trajectory to me, and Lewis hit the apex dead on in the latter.

It’s not a like for like comparison. Remember that on the lead up to the corner Hamilton was squeezed far more to his right in the first instance. That changes his AOA for which he then has got give him else more room to make the corner.

Max going left opens the door.

Like I said, in every sanctioning body I’ve been around, you’re allowed one move. You can’t expect push someone, go left, and then swing into the corner and not expect that person to still be there.

Max / the FIA clearly have no problem with cars running wide on the first lap. Max could have opened the door a little bit and just used the extra asphalt.

Again, he has done the Senna / Schumacher thing, and like both of them, sometimes it backfires.

What Max hoped for is what Senna did to Patrese in 1991 at Monza on the last lap. Except, Lewis isn’t Patrese.

I did read Max unfollowed Lewis on social media, which is laughable. I’m not sure that will bother the 36yo Lewis that a 23yo Max unfollowed him. Can you imagine IG in the Prost / Senna days? Talk about the dramatics.

[JPower]

Great race IMO.

This won't be the last time Max and Lewis get together. The rest of the grid should be ready to pick up the pieces.