Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen came together in the first lap of the British Grand Prix, and despite a penalty, the reigning World Champion won his home race. Charles Leclerc finished a close second as Bottas came home in third.
Apparently Red Bull are making the unprecedented move of calling in lawyers to open some sort of case against Hamilton. On what grounds I really don't know.
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
It makes literally no sense, otherwise all the teams would be suing each other every time a driver gets taken out in a crash that wasn't their fault.
Apparently Red Bull are making the unprecedented move of calling in lawyers to open some sort of case against Hamilton. On what grounds I really don't know.
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
On the contrary, I think it's silly, extremely OTT, and opens a very dangerous can of worms for the future of the sport.
Masi mentioned that the penalty system doesn't take into account the impact of the incident, which is such a critical aspect in racing. If the governing body doesn't recognize this and if it need to forced by teams to incorporate it, it's actually a good thing for the sport. The governing system need to improve and FIA doesn't recognize it themselves. The penalties have been farsicical at best and they are afraid of charging penalties to the top teams. Race stewards have been erratic and inconsistent and to that effect, an external force being applied should move the sport in the right direction.
Apparently Red Bull are making the unprecedented move of calling in lawyers to open some sort of case against Hamilton. On what grounds I really don't know.
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
It makes literally no sense, otherwise all the teams would be suing each other every time a driver gets taken out in a crash that wasn't their fault.
It won't have to be if there are more stringent penalties applied, taking into account the action and the impact. There is a reason why stewards are kept and that is to exactly do that, otherwise anyone can simply use the rule book, which itself is devoid of real life impacts of incidents.
I think hopefully there will be some common sense on this forum at least going forward.
For me, Max is okay. That's what matters.
If I am to isolate the incident, Lewis is for me the clear cut culprit. I personally would never give any penalty for it though. It was a racing incident with Lewis getting most of the blame. However, with stakes so high, the sport should certainly look at the fact that this could decide the WDC and Lewis winning it because of this result where he shunted his main rival would be something I am not interested in as a fan. It is just wrong. And I am not talking about reversing results or stupid race bans but just to learn from this episode as a sport. I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.
Ten races done, Max still leads by 7 where he has made 0 mistakes while his rival has made plenty and been completely off colour in certain races while he's been on it every single session. If he can keep this up, he will still mount a decent fight for the championship. Lewis' attitude this season is clearly back to his early days of cockiness and arrogance. May be, all of it was a facade in the first place. Very disrespectful behaviour all around.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"
I think hopefully there will be some common sense on this forum at least going forward.
For me, Max is okay. That's what matters.
If I am to isolate the incident, Lewis is for me the clear cut culprit. I personally would never give any penalty for it though. It was a racing incident with Lewis getting most of the blame. However, with stakes so high, the sport should certainly look at the fact that this could decide the WDC and Lewis winning it because of this result where he shunted his main rival would be something I am not interested in as a fan. It is just wrong. And I am not talking about reversing results or stupid race bans but just to learn from this episode as a sport. I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.
Ten races done, Max still leads by 7 where he has made 0 mistakes while his rival has made plenty and been completely off colour in certain races while he's been on it every single session. If he can keep this up, he will still mount a decent fight for the championship. Lewis' attitude this season is clearly back to his early days of cockiness and arrogance. May be, all of it was a facade in the first place. Very disrespectful behaviour all around.
..... I read Shovlin's report that without the red flag, Lewis would DNF so may be we need to have a rule where the people causing the red flag cannot touch the car.
And what if someone has damage through no fault of his own?
Sometimes people are lucky, sometimes not. All part of the game
Edit: sorry, missed the part 'causing the red flag'. But that would be some weird kind of extra penalty, and you would need to wait on the stewards ruling.
Last edited by TimW on 20 Jul 2021, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
On the contrary, I think it's silly, extremely OTT, and opens a very dangerous can of worms for the future of the sport.
Masi mentioned that the penalty system doesn't take into account the impact of the incident, which is such a critical aspect in racing. If the governing body doesn't recognize this and if it need to forced by teams to incorporate it, it's actually a good thing for the sport. The governing system need to improve and FIA doesn't recognize it themselves. The penalties have been farsicical at best and they are afraid of charging penalties to the top teams. Race stewards have been erratic and inconsistent and to that effect, an external force being applied should move the sport in the right direction.
It's actually the teams who do not want that to be the case, so they won't be forcing anyone to do anything ...
Masi stressed that the stewards could not take account of the fact that Verstappen had retired and Hamilton had continued, and any potential impact on the title battle.
"I think one of the big parts that's been a mainstay for many, many years," he said. "And this came through discussions prior to my time between all of the teams, the FIA and F1, and the team principals were all quite adamant, is that you should not consider the consequences in an incident.
There’s a whole lot of histrionics and melodrama on this thread which is hardly surprising considering the results but let’s look at the facts:
1) The stewards; ruled Lewis was “predominantly to blame”. Not wholly, which means Max is culpable too, otherwise Lewis would’ve been “wholly to blame” and the penalty likely more severe.
2) The penalty; was the second most lenient that could be given, suggesting the stewards think that this wasn’t 99:1 Lewis to blame, maybe more 60:40 or hell, even 51:49 (or even 50:50).
3) The team principals; are there to advocate for their drivers. Accusations of running people off the road or “no one overtakes there” are mealy mouthed and disingenuous. Let’s see how they react when it’s their driver dishing it out (I’m looking at you Horner…). And as for “no one overtakes there” well, is there a race track there or not?
4) The aftermath; there’s a choice to be made going forward, play the % game and learn how to maximise your points, or seek revenge on which case as the old saying goes “dig two graves”.
Last edited by Tiny73 on 20 Jul 2021, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.
British GP stewards ruled that Hamilton was responsible for the incident, but the punishment was extremely lenient. Besides, he ruined Max's race and improved his own championship chances and has induced millions in car damages. It makes a good enough reason for taking the fight out of track for Red Bull.
It makes literally no sense, otherwise all the teams would be suing each other every time a driver gets taken out in a crash that wasn't their fault.
It won't have to be if there are more stringent penalties applied, taking into account the action and the impact. There is a reason why stewards are kept and that is to exactly do that, otherwise anyone can simply use the rule book, which itself is devoid of real life impacts of incidents.
This is racing, if you crash, your fault or not, it’s coming from your budget. This is so in the most simple soap box down hill all the way up to F1. The whole premise of having to pay the competition for the damage on their car is ridiculous. As for the budget cap: the same applies what I said when Bottas got his car ruined. This is how racing works. Tough luck plus you have to budget in a few crashes, if you don’t, it’s your own fault. Just image HAAS doing the same, they would bankrupt themselves.
As for heftier penalties: teams and drivers asked for penalties for the action, not the outcome.
Driver licence points were introduced for this reason but are misused for small infringements. Instead of giving a driver automatically a point or two for some wheel banging at 80 km/h, point could be “awarded” for stuff like this, without infringing in the race.
You can clearly see that Hamilton is all but exactly level with Max as they enter the corner phase. It looks ever more like Max just expected Hamilton to back out or swerve to avoid him as usual - indeed as had happened at the end of the Wellington Straight. But this time that didn't happen.
So that's a deciding moment allowing Lewis to miss the apex and send Max into a 51 g shunt? Seriously?
Let us wait for the moment that this happens to Lewis. It will be interesting....
Lewis is turning in towards the apex and is heading towards the inside line of the corner when Max comes across and hits him. Max decided to keep turning in and assumed that the other driver would yield because he is Max.
The "51g shunt" bit is Horner hyperbole and has no relevance. The result could just as easily have been a simple spin or even just a flick of instability and then back on the power.
I think Lewis wouldn't have continued to turn in once he saw another car there.
What will be interesting is whether Max continues to use the "I'm turning in / diving up the inside / whatever so you yield or we crash" technique that he's favoured for so long. I note that he doesn't move around under braking nearly so much as he did before he Baku incident with Danny.
The problem with using bully tactics - and that's what it is - is that eventually someone stands up to the bully. It's how he moves on from that moment that is interesting.
51g shunt itself is not relevant. But the risk taken by Lewis not to use the 5 feet on the inside was either his choise, or he simply forgot that cars do understeer if you do not have the racing line at that speed.
You cannot simply claim a corner is equally yours if you are not in a position to take that corner without going wide. He is experienced enough to know this. So I seriously hope he underestimated the understeer of his Merc.
Either way, you can forget about Max backing out next time if he is on a racing line ahead of his opponent and on fresh tyres. Maybe if he is 80 points ahead he will wave a green flag so Lewis can pass. But as long as it matters, it is exactly as Mercedes said to Lewis: never give up.
how things change when the shoe is on the other foot.