Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen came together in the first lap of the British Grand Prix, and despite a penalty, the reigning World Champion won his home race. Charles Leclerc finished a close second as Bottas came home in third.
It was a risky move sending one down the inside at one of the fastest corners on the calendar.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex and you should be held accountable. This was not aggressive, this was reckless as he didn’t make the apex nor the corner.
Genuinely shocked with the bias from Sky and other powerful interest, because this incident can be reviewed objectively.
I heard claims VER should have left more room. Just watch this clip and focus solely on HAM line (disregard VER in this footage). Where’s he heading? Where’s VER supposed to go? The collision was inevitable, even if VER adjusted his line.
VER left the exact same space LEC did. Difference is that HAM now adjusted his line and took less speed into the corner.
It was a risky move sending one down the inside at one of the fastest corners on the calendar.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex and you should be held accountable. This was not aggressive, this was reckless as he didn’t make the apex nor the corner.
Genuinely shocked with the bias from Sky and other powerful interest, because this incident can be reviewed objectively.
I heard claims VER should have left more room. Just watch this clip and focus solely on HAM line (disregard VER in this footage). Where’s he heading? Where’s VER supposed to go? The collision was inevitable, even if VER adjusted his line.
VER left the exact same space LEC did. Difference is that HAM now adjusted his line and took less speed into the corner.
that is making up rules.
I am not making up rules, the stewards also judged it this way (that HAM should be held accountable for missing the apex, despite having a more than a car width of space throughout the whole corner).
You can’t deny HAM wasn’t respecting the car on the outside based on his trajectory. He understeered all the way wide and both lines would eventually collide, even if VER took a wider angle into the corner.
For hardcore Hamilton fans, yes. For the rest of the world, it's a sad reality and a genuine concern.
Doesn't seem to be a reality for most of the retired/active drivers involved in F1. Most drivers called this nothing but unfortunate racing incidents (including, Coulthard, Alonso, Leclerk, Saintz, Karun Chandhok, Palmer...), that's the actual people that know something about wheel to wheel racing.
+Montoya - they asked him about it on motorsport.tv
I am still quite certain if Mazepin pulled this move, people would have put full blame on him.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex. HAM took too much speed in coming from that angle into the corner, hence he understeered.
Deeming this as a race incident is the easy way out. I can’t see how VER could have avoided this incident, once HAM committed. This is also clearly evident from HAM onboard, looking at his trajectory.
None of these people focused on this in their analysis. They only reviewed the incident till the apex, not looking at HAM trajectory, which is not correct.
In racing, there’s a subtle difference in between being aggressive or reckless.The racing prior to Copse was aggressive, Max made the apex at Brooklands for example. At Copse, Lewis missed the apex, thus can be regarded as reckless in my opinion as he misjudged it.
Lewis was very angry (in front of the Sky camera) because Max hit him. Max showed no respect at all!
Max should have pulled over, like he is used to from everyone! He called Max very, very aggressive.
Max has 0 penalty points on his licence. Why would that be?
In fact, this is already at least the 9th time Lewis has hit someone's rear tire with his front tyre, thus knocking them out of the race and giving the competitor less/no points.
He used that trick very often during his karting days, only there the consequences were not as bad.
He has mastered this trick to perfection, so that he always gets away with it, damage-wise and point-wise.
He knows exactly where and when to use such a manoeuvre and no one in the race management notices!
Lewis realises that he cannot beat Max in a fair way, so this is the way to go. I hope the eyes of the race committee open for once, because with such ridiculous penalties for Lewis' tricks, he will do it again next time.
Now, Max's health seems to have ended reasonably well. However, that impact of 51G can have repercussions in the body later on, but how will it end with Max next time? Lewis is definitely going to continue this if not intervened! Hold my breath!
Is this satire?
For hardcore Hamilton fans, yes. For the rest of the world, it's a sad reality and a genuine concern.
"Rest of the world" = redbull media relations
It was not even a racing incident, malicious party was max.
Defend from outside the circuit /check
Swerve dangerously half way through the circuit /check
Squeeze the opponent to wall /check
Turn into opponent /check
Here is a very good analysis:
Here is another one:
Here is what good drivers are saying:
Charles Leclerc, who was immediately behind the pair when they tangled, described the collision as a “racing incident”.
“It is very difficult to judge it from the car, we are very low so it’s difficult to see,” he said. “Everything went very quick. Obviously I could see there was quite a bit of things going around in front of me.
“I think it’s a racing incident. It’s quite difficult to put the blame on one or the other. Obviously there was space on the inside.
“Maybe Lewis was not completely at the apex but it’s also true that Max was quite aggressive on the outside. So, things happen, what is the most important today is that Max is unharmed and is fine.”
Hamilton passed Leclerc at the same corner later in the race. The Mercedes driver praised Leclerc’s “respectful” approach to their fight for position.
“I knew Lewis was in the inside,” said Leclerc. “I left a space and unfortunately, I think I had stayed in front, but in the very end of the corner I got a snap and lost a little bit of time and then Lewis got in front of me.”
“It looked quite close, I think Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max,” said Alonso. “So in a way, Lewis could not disappear from that inside line. It’s not that you can vanish.”
Alonso also said neither driver was at fault. “It was an unfortunate moment of the race, but nothing intentional or nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong, in my opinion. So that was an unlucky moment, I guess.”
Hamilton’s team mate Valtteri Bottas wasn’t surprised the pair ended up colliding.
“I saw them fighting through lap one, a bit like yesterday. I had a feeling something was going to happen.
“But they were fighting hard. That kind of thing, that happens, it’s racing. It can happen. When you fight hard, when you don’t give up.
“I’m just happy that Max is fine because it was a big shunt. Also, I really feel like Lewis fully deserved the win today.”
Last edited by foxmulder_ms on 21 Jul 2021, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.
Very easy, whoever said Max couldn't avoid that - he lifts and goes around the outside, where he put his car himself, to start with.
If you're going to crowd a car to the inside line on the way into the corner, you *know* he's going to be there and you *know* he's going to have to take a shallow line and run wide at the exit. So you should slow down and turn underneath him. It's absolutely basic racecraft.
If Max wanted to defend the inside line *then he should have put his car there* before trying to push Lewis onto it.
The only reason Ham was coming in at that angle was that Max deliberate pushed him there.
Doesn't matter what line you take, you can't just turn into a car and expect it to dissapear. hamilton had no problem making the corner so whether he missed the apex or not is neither here nor there (and lets not forget, before the collision occured he was on line for a late apex, no problem, you can see that on the onboard).
Max though Lewis had slowed enough to make the corner that he could chop across the front of him, he misjudged it. Racing incident.
Last edited by PhillipM on 21 Jul 2021, 15:00, edited 2 times in total.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex. HAM took too much speed in coming from that angle into the corner, hence he understeered.
Sorry, but the stewards had a brain fade claiming anything about the apex. Hitting an apex is not a requirement, nor does it mean a driver will or will not make the turn. In fact it's actually slower to hit the apex of certain turns.
for example check out turn 6 from Vettel's 2011 pole lap in Istanbul Park.
If you're going to crowd a car to the inside line on the way into the corner, you *know* he's going to be there and you *know* he's going to have to take a shallow line and run wide at the exit. So you should slow down and turn underneath him. It's absolutely basic racecraft.
Yep, This is a tactic that shows up a lot in Bahrain at turns 1 and 4.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex. HAM took too much speed in coming from that angle into the corner, hence he understeered.
Sorry, but the stewards had a brain fade claiming anything about the apex. Hitting an apex is not a requirement, nor does it mean a driver will or will not make the turn. In fact it's actually slower to hit the apex of certain turns.
for example check out turn 6 from Vettel's 2011 pole lap in Istanbul Park.
How come HAM didn’t collide with LEC then?
Evidence says that VER and LEC took the same line, Lewis on the other hand…
When did Max leave the track to concede position? Even if a driver ahead leaves track, he can come back ahead as he never lost a position, as long as there is no contact and no "crowding". That's the rule. I didn't see anyone talk about it so far. Only if a driver attempting overtake runs wide, he has to concede. That's what Max did in Bahrain.
Turn 1. Hamilton had a better start and was fully alongside in to T1. Max tried to hang out around the outside and ran wide. He then swept back across the track and if Hamilton hadn't moved sideways, Max would have hit him. It was simply not "rejoin safely" as required.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
When you miss the apex, you miss the apex. HAM took too much speed in coming from that angle into the corner, hence he understeered.
Sorry, but the stewards had a brain fade claiming anything about the apex. Hitting an apex is not a requirement, nor does it mean a driver will or will not make the turn. In fact it's actually slower to hit the apex of certain turns.
for example check out turn 6 from Vettel's 2011 pole lap in Istanbul Park.
How come HAM didn’t collide with LEC then?
Evidence says that VER and LEC took the same line, Lewis on the other hand…
Lewis was much further away from Leclerc. He was never alongside of him. He was completely along side Max (as defined by the rules), so if Max took the same line as Leclerc it was catually his fault for ignoring the fact that Lewis has the right to chose the line (as long as he leaves enough space on the outside).
Evidence says that VER and LEC took the same line, Lewis on the other hand…
You indirectly defeated your own argument. Charles ran wide all on his own, even though he made no contact with Lewis. In other words lines drawn on a sequence of still shots stitched together means nothing on their own.
There are other significantly more important factors at play, such as:
The speed of the car at any given point during the turn
the grip level that the tires are capable of giving at their current temperature and at that point in their life.
I am puzzled with where the hitting the apex rationale comes from as I have never seen this used before. Also this seems to be preemptive as the apex hadn’t been passed. I am not looking at this to exonerate anyone just to understand the judgment, this could have a massive impact on future events.
When fighting wheel to wheel I don’t think you can impose set lines it’s all relative and fast moving. I would also point out the cars width rule does really apply mid corner, you can leave 5 car widths on the inside but the car can’t travel sideways. This is when they use the rule about crowding.
I felt this was a racing incident but I am admittedly biased as a fan, what troubles me is the move to punishments being fitted to outcomes rather than the infraction.
When did Max leave the track to concede position? Even if a driver ahead leaves track, he can come back ahead as he never lost a position, as long as there is no contact and no "crowding". That's the rule. I didn't see anyone talk about it so far. Only if a driver attempting overtake runs wide, he has to concede. That's what Max did in Bahrain.
Turn 1. Hamilton had a better start and was fully alongside in to T1. Max tried to hang out around the outside and ran wide. He then swept back across the track and if Hamilton hadn't moved sideways, Max would have hit him. It was simply not "rejoin safely" as required.
I am puzzled with where the hitting the apex rationale comes from as I have never seen this used before. Also this seems to be preemptive as the apex hadn’t been passed. I am not looking at this to exonerate anyone just to understand the judgment, this could have a massive impact on future events.
When fighting wheel to wheel I don’t think you can impose set lines it’s all relative and fast moving. I would also point out the cars width rule does really apply mid corner, you can leave 5 car widths on the inside but the car can’t travel sideways. This is when they use the rule about crowding.
I felt this was a racing incident but I am admittedly biased as a fan, what troubles me is the move to punishments being fitted to outcomes rather than the infraction.
The apex and where it is on certain corners is completely dependent of where you start the corner and where you want to end it. In an overtake you either compromise the entry or the exit, “missing” the common apex. Having to hit the apex means you can’t overtake or take any risks without getting a penalty if you don’t get any room.
In other words, Leclerc could have just turned into Verstappen in Austria without any problem.
