2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[NathanOlder]

We can only go by what we know up to that point obviously. He was certainly maximizing the car to get those sectors that much is true. So much so he went over the limit in his usual Silverstone exuberance.

You cherry picked that very same lap to say the Mercedes is leagues ahead of RedBull, now you switch to the previous lap he did, which was a massive 7 hundreths in front of Max??

I don’t need to cherry pick anything to prove that Mercedes was fastest at Silverstone. Hamilton’s Q2 lap alone was quicker than anything Verstappen managed in either Q2 or Q3. His Q3 banker was enough for pole, and that lap was nowhere near the maximum of what that car could have achieved. As LH himself showed on his second run until he ran wide.

Secondly, I never said that Mercedes was leagues ahead of Red Bull this weekend. It’s extremely frustrating to debate with someone who constantly misrepresents you in order to make themselves look more reasonable. How about you actually debate me, instead of the imaginary straw-men you are creating?

I get the feeling you know for a fact that Max extracted ever single 1000th of a second out of his car.

[Kingshark]

I get the feeling you know for a fact that Max extracted ever single 1000th of a second out of his car.

I don’t have any evidence to suggest that Verstappen extracted the maximum potential out of his car, just like you don’t have any evidence to suggest that Hamilton extracted the maximum potential out of his car.

If anything, the fact that Hamilton was on course to beat his own time by 3 tenths until he made a major mistake suggests that he clearly didn’t get the most out of his car.

Likewise, the fact that Bottas was only 2 tenths behind him while Perez was 6-7 tenths behind Max suggests that Max certainly got more out of his machinery.

[Kingshark]

I don’t need to cherry pick anything to prove that Mercedes was fastest at Silverstone. Hamilton’s Q2 lap alone was quicker than anything Verstappen managed in either Q2 or Q3. His Q3 banker was enough for pole, and that lap was nowhere near the maximum of what that car could have achieved. As LH himself showed on his second run until he ran wide.

Secondly, I never said that Mercedes was leagues ahead of Red Bull this weekend. It’s extremely frustrating to debate with someone who constantly misrepresents you in order to make themselves look more reasonable. How about you actually debate me, instead of the imaginary straw-men you are creating?

Because Lewis is simply quick at Silverstone, Bro. Don't burst your brain distorting this reality into some sort of bite-sized comfort cookie that it's all down to the car. It's not.

That’s a convenient excuse, I will begin to use the same.

Red Bull wasn’t actually better than Mercedes around either Austria weekends, Max is just really fast around Red Bull Ring which made the difference.

[ispano6]

The sprint race weekend is not at all representative of a car's outright pace as there was only one session for the teams to get a set up done, which clearly wasn't optimal for some teams. That is what makes it a farce and added an unnecessary variable to this year's championship that should have been based on the same format as previous years of this generation car. New format should have been introduced for the new season, instead of screwing up the championship leading team's season.

[zibby43]

The sprint race weekend is not at all representative of a car's outright pace as there was only one session for the teams to get a set up done, which clearly wasn't optimal for some teams. That is what makes it a farce and added an unnecessary variable to this year's championship that should have been based on the same format as previous years of this generation car. New format should have been introduced for the new season, instead of screwing up the championship leading team's season.

Same conditions for everyone. Team best able to adapt benefits.

Format essentially gave Max a second shot at pole through the variability of a race start, which is the ultimate crapshoot. But he capitalized upon the chance.

[Kingshark]

The sprint race weekend is not at all representative of a car's outright pace as there was only one session for the teams to get a set up done, which clearly wasn't optimal for some teams. That is what makes it a farce and added an unnecessary variable to this year's championship that should have been based on the same format as previous years of this generation car. New format should have been introduced for the new season, instead of screwing up the championship leading team's season.

Don't forget that the sprint race was solely done on medium tyres. Mercedes is on another level when they switch to hards.

[maxxer]

Sprint race was horrible people out of position which in the end created the crash , the americans probaly want reverse grids next year , let F1 be as it is stop ruining it

[ispano6]

The sprint race weekend is not at all representative of a car's outright pace as there was only one session for the teams to get a set up done, which clearly wasn't optimal for some teams. That is what makes it a farce and added an unnecessary variable to this year's championship that should have been based on the same format as previous years of this generation car. New format should have been introduced for the new season, instead of screwing up the championship leading team's season.

Don't forget that the sprint race was solely done on medium tyres. Mercedes is on another level when they switch to hards.

That depends on track temperatures though. RB in the right conditions can be superior as well.

Max said so himself that they had too much wing and couldn't change the set up. On a normal weekend they wouldn't have had that limitation.

[NathanOlder]

I get the feeling you know for a fact that Max extracted ever single 1000th of a second out of his car.

I don’t have any evidence to suggest that Verstappen extracted the maximum potential out of his car, just like you don’t have any evidence to suggest that Hamilton extracted the maximum potential out of his car.

If anything, the fact that Hamilton was on course to beat his own time by 3 tenths until he made a major mistake suggests that he clearly didn’t get the most out of his car.

Likewise, the fact that Bottas was only 2 tenths behind him while Perez was 6-7 tenths behind Max suggests that Max certainly got more out of his machinery.

And at what point did I say or even suggest that Lewis extracted the maximum from the W12 ?

And I love how you call it a major mistake lol

and as for this.....

"Likewise, the fact that Bottas was only 2 tenths behind him while Perez was 6-7 tenths behind Max suggests that Max certainly got more out of his machinery."

How about I just blow that out the water by saying, all that does is suggest Bottas got more out of his machinery than Perez! After all, Perez had 2 races and didnt score a point. You have no grounds on this one. Good day to you Sir.

Game, Set and the Match.

[Kingshark]

And at what point did I say or even suggest that Lewis extracted the maximum from the W12 ?

You made the same baseless assumption about me:

“I get the feeling you know for a fact that Max extracted ever single 1000th of a second out of his car. ”

Tell me, where exactly did I say that Max was extracting every thousandth out of his car?

Perhaps don’t make baseless assumptions about other posters, and then complain when they make similar assumptions about you.

And I love how you call it a major mistake lol

Losing what appears to be 3-4 tenths in a single corner on a qualifying lap is a major mistake. He made difficult work out of a pole that should have been fairly easy, based on his speed advantage.

How about I just blow that out the water by saying, all that does is suggest Bottas got more out of his machinery than Perez! After all, Perez had 2 races and didnt score a point.

Maybe the reason why Bottas appeared to have gotten more out of his machinery than Perez this weekend, was because Bottas’ machinery was just better this weekend?

To be honest, this entire debate is fairly pointless. PZ wants us to believe that the reason why LH44 appeared to have 3-4 tenths in hand over Max in qualifying is because he’s just that fast around Silverstone. I can make the same assumption about Max and the two Austria races, but at the end of the day it’s pointless because neither can be proven. Everyone wants to believe what makes their own favourite driver looks best, even when it is illogical.

[adrianjordan]

The first race I ever watched involved a red car fighting a white car. It was late 2001. The first corner was a right-left sequence.

In hindsight, it could have been either USA or Monza 2001.

The first season I followed in detail (keeping track of points and everything) was 2003.

When you were 7?? Jeez that's impressive!!

Indeed, I mean, I was 7 in 92, and I remember flashes when I was at Silverstone that year. My parents are both F1 fans so I was watching from as early as possible.

All my memories of 90-93 seem real memories, but when I think about it, they are probably memories from watching re runs and hughlights. Before the age of 7 I have a handful of memories of real life events but they are mainly big life moments (first day at school, deaths in the family, being at Silverstone and holidays abroad) So I would guess any memory of F1 on tv are not from when it was live, its more likely from seeing it again.

Likewise, I remember vague recollections of Mansell racing, but certainly wasn't keeping track of points or anything like that. My earliest distinct memory of F1 is Senna's crash - I was 12 and can still tell you what I'd eaten for lunch and where I was sitting at the time.

Maybe it's a function of what information was available at the time though. I'd imagine in the 80s and 90s it would be quite hard to find the points tables etc, whereas by the 00s the Internet had arrived and made that a lot easier.

[Just_a_fan]

When you were 7?? Jeez that's impressive!!

Indeed, I mean, I was 7 in 92, and I remember flashes when I was at Silverstone that year. My parents are both F1 fans so I was watching from as early as possible.

All my memories of 90-93 seem real memories, but when I think about it, they are probably memories from watching re runs and hughlights. Before the age of 7 I have a handful of memories of real life events but they are mainly big life moments (first day at school, deaths in the family, being at Silverstone and holidays abroad) So I would guess any memory of F1 on tv are not from when it was live, its more likely from seeing it again.

Likewise, I remember vague recollections of Mansell racing, but certainly wasn't keeping track of points or anything like that. My earliest distinct memory of F1 is Senna's crash - I was 12 and can still tell you what I'd eaten for lunch and where I was sitting at the time.

Maybe it's a function of what information was available at the time though. I'd imagine in the 80s and 90s it would be quite hard to find the points tables etc, whereas by the 00s the Internet had arrived and made that a lot easier.

I distinctly remember Mansell's Adelaide tyre failure that robbed him of the title in '86. I remember watching F1 a bit before that year, but I was more interested in aircraft, space, etc., in my younger years ( I still am interested in those things at the age of 50 ). I certainly remember Senna's death - sat on the floor in my parents' house watching the race. The emotion of "I've just watched a man die". The numbness afterwards. A "JFK moment" for some of us. The only other moment like that I can remember was watching the attack on the WTC - I was having lunch and turned on the TV to watch the news. Saw the second impact live on TV. Phoned the office and said "I'm having the afternoon off" - just had to watch the whole terrible thing unfold as the day went on.

[dans79]

[Big Tea]

The name has been engraved on the trophy, the bookies have paid out, and the result is in the books. What does Horner want them to do? cross them all out?

Another vid sorry

[Just_a_fan]

The name has been engraved on the trophy, the bookies have paid out, and the result is in the books. What does Horner want them to do? cross them all out?

Horner wants to destabilise Mercedes's top management. Threaten action which will require Toto and other senior people to at least look over their shoulders even if for a brief moment. Old fashioned F1 politics of the sort that Enzo would be proud.

Either that or he's just spitting his dummy.