2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[SiLo]

Listening to the throttle application during Hamilton's pole onboard is absurd. Absolutely mashes the throttle at every opportunity and it just sticks.

[Schippke]

As some have already mentioned here, I think it'll be Red Bull's (Max's) race to loose... but as others have already alluded to, I'd put Ferrari down as the Dark Horse (pun somewhat intended!) this weekend to trouble Mercedes.

Despite Carlos' comments with regards to being a higher speed track than it use to be, it isn't really a top-end power circuit... where the last few tracks were more notably so. If we're to believe that Ferrari is still a noticeable amount down on overall power vs. Honda and Mercedes, that deficit will be felt less this weekend.

Another strong point in the last few races (aside from Paul Ricard; that was painful) for Ferrari is their race-pace and tyre wear has noticeably improved... the pace they had in clear air on worn Mediums in Silverstone was eye-opening for me... couple that 2 the fact they've got the most complete and balanced driver line-up, could be interesting... OR I could be completely wrong and they'll be back to 4th best behind McLaren.

Also, this being the first 'normal' weekend since the updated tyre construction was introduced in Silverstone, it may be interesting to see if there is any noticeable differences in team performances because of it.

[El Scorchio]

.According to Aws

I wouldn't put too much faith in that. They had Lewis with green for all his tyres, Max with orange or red for his, and yet Lewis had a line of blisters on his front tyres. That's just one example of AWS's "insights".

Agree. All the AWS things they put up are just a load of garbage, aside from maybe the corner analysis. The overtake ones are the only other ones of even any vague interest.

[dans79]

.According to Aws

I wouldn't put too much faith in that. They had Lewis with green for all his tyres, Max with orange or red for his, and yet Lewis had a line of blisters on his front tyres. That's just one example of AWS's "insights".

Agree. All the AWS things they put up are just a load of garbage, aside from maybe the corner analysis. The overtake ones are the only other ones of even any vague interest.

Even those are questionable at times, as they assume no tire drop off, and that both drivers will maintain their current pace.

[El Scorchio]

I wouldn't put too much faith in that. They had Lewis with green for all his tyres, Max with orange or red for his, and yet Lewis had a line of blisters on his front tyres. That's just one example of AWS's "insights".

Agree. All the AWS things they put up are just a load of garbage, aside from maybe the corner analysis. The overtake ones are the only other ones of even any vague interest.

Even those are questionable at times, as they assume no tire drop off.

Yeah true. I do find them slightly handy to bring my attention to a potential overtake coming up if it hadn't already been spotted although usually the commentators or director are already all over it, but yes- pinch of salt. The 'ease of overtake' thing isn't exactly reliable either.

However they are myriads more useful than that stupid qualifying prediction one they always put up based on practice times. So much of it is based on obviously flawed data. (i.e. taking last year's form into it- utterly irrelevant)

One that really irks me is when they compare Hamilton and Verstappen's starts with a number out of 10. Inexplicably Hamilton's stat is always higher but it's plain to anyone with eyes Verstappen has had better starts on the whole this season. I don't even know what data that one is meant to be based on. It certainly can't be on places gained/lost. Reaction time is the only thing I can think of where Hamilton could be winning, if the RB car has a superior starting procedure or better acceleration off the line.

[NathanOlder]

I wouldn't put too much faith in that. They had Lewis with green for all his tyres, Max with orange or red for his, and yet Lewis had a line of blisters on his front tyres. That's just one example of AWS's "insights".

Agree. All the AWS things they put up are just a load of garbage, aside from maybe the corner analysis. The overtake ones are the only other ones of even any vague interest.

Even those are questionable at times, as they assume no tire drop off, and that both drivers will maintain their current pace.

Yeah, it seems they just take the gap, and divide that by the time gained on the previous lap. Even if that lap involves traffic or an error. Plus it doesn't appear to take tyre wear in to account.

As an example, If the the car in 2nd has just put on a new set of softs, and is 2 seconds a lap faster right after the stop, AWS will tell us that in 10 laps he will close the 20 second gap. Forgetting after 5 laps those soft tyres are trash. and will barely gain any time at all.

I really don't like any of the AWS stuff, totally pointless. It only tells you a few things that anyone with live timing would already know by the time its on screen.

[Ryar]

I see there is a lot of rigidity in embracing innovation in sports in general. Not many welcome a new way of doing things or new experiments. Nothing, nothing starts with perfection when it comes out as an idea. It evolves and space should be given to such new things that are being tried. New track comes, people blast it. New regulations come, people blast it. New information, new cameras, new everything is resisted. There are some that wants to improve the show and there are some loathe those attempts. Eventually, either things click or go away to come back later with a different dimension.

AWS info graphics is a new AI experiment of predictions and with time, it's going to get better and become more accurate. I personally think it's a good addition and when it has enough data and the modelling gets right improvements, it's going to slay the viewing experience. Teams have a sea of information in front of them with which they make decisions and if some of it, even if its just a close match, comes to viewers, it enhanced the experience. I keep watching the races by having one monitor displaying live timing and it's great to keep an eye on sector times and how the traffic is looking like for a battle and all that stuff. Looking at driver performance comparisons gives more things to enjoy. Hope they eventually get the AWS predictions right.

[WaikeCU]

Those AWS stats imo aren't even close to what in reality is. Just pure marketing partnership that those things are shown on-screen. Pretty sure AWS does a lot of clever stuff, but not like that.

[SiLo]

Those AWS stats imo aren't even close to what in reality is. Just pure marketing partnership that those things are shown on-screen. Pretty sure AWS does a lot of clever stuff, but not like that.

I guess they have to keep trying to help improve the AI, but it seems to have been fairly consistent in how wrong it is so far.

[El Scorchio]

I don't think they'll ever have enough reliable data to make them much better or less flawed. All they'll ever have to go on is practice times as using past year's data is going to be essentially pointless each year. It's not like amassing data on something which stays constant. It is not good having stats up that are essentially just going to be inaccurate most of the time.

As you've said Waike- it's a nice marketing partnership with AWS, though, and casuals aren't going to be as critical of most of it as we are.

[Spacepace]

Curious to see how much more efficient the W12 is with a higher downforce package now that the upgrades are on.

Merc were able to run a tiny wing in Silverstone and still maintain good tire deg and cornering speeds.

As HungarianRacer said, the W11 was dominant in Hungary last year. Unlike Monaco and Baku, there are longer radius corners and more abrasive asphalt in Hungary.

Ferrari may be ahead of McLaren, but I think Merc and RBR will be clear in qualifying.

Ferrari is going to cause headaches for Mercedes around Hungary. It's much more battery friendly. The heat will help Ferrari get temperature in the front tires.

Is not being able to put temperature in the front tyres something Ferrari has noted as one of the problems?

[LM10]

Listening to the throttle application during Hamilton's pole onboard is absurd. Absolutely mashes the throttle at every opportunity and it just sticks.

Best F1 car to have existed.

[Zynerji]

The AWS graphics will be best when they have access to the telemetry of each car. IE: Tyre temps, fuel reserve/usage, battery state, etc. Then the AI/ML part can start its Game Theory predictions based upon the current state of a race, and what had happened in similar circumstances in the past. Might take a few years of data collection, but it could change the whole viewing experience as it gains maturity.

[godlameroso]

Curious to see how much more efficient the W12 is with a higher downforce package now that the upgrades are on.

Merc were able to run a tiny wing in Silverstone and still maintain good tire deg and cornering speeds.

As HungarianRacer said, the W11 was dominant in Hungary last year. Unlike Monaco and Baku, there are longer radius corners and more abrasive asphalt in Hungary.

Ferrari may be ahead of McLaren, but I think Merc and RBR will be clear in qualifying.

Ferrari is going to cause headaches for Mercedes around Hungary. It's much more battery friendly. The heat will help Ferrari get temperature in the front tires.

Is not being able to put temperature in the front tyres something Ferrari has noted as one of the problems?

Yep, not enough load to put them in the right window, if they increased the front load they would throw off the balance at the rear. Now they have more load at the rear so they can balance it with more front load and setup.

Understeer not only is a result of a lack of front load, or too much rear load, but if you have to crank on more slip angle on the front axle to make the corner or get the grip, you're also disturbing the aero at the rear of the car to a greater extent than if you needed less steering lock.

This is why I believe an oversteery difficult to handle car at low speeds could have better aero performance at mid to high speeds because of less steering lock needed to get the car to rotate.

[PlatinumZealot]

Those AWS stats imo aren't even close to what in reality is. Just pure marketing partnership that those things are shown on-screen. Pretty sure AWS does a lot of clever stuff, but not like that.

It should get more and more accurate as data builds up. Hmm. It's a good thread idea. Comparing AWS predictions and actual outcomes.