2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[Jolle]

My guess is that it will go like this:

FIA: what new evidence do you have?
RedBull: we want Mercedes to face the consequences of our smashed car
FIA: but what is the new evidence?
RedBull: We had almost 2 million worth of damage, we want a raceban!
FIA: so, no new evidence?
RedBull: Its so unfair!

[LaplacesDemon]

Hopefully the outcome of the review is a set of clear guidelines on overtaking and a better insight into how the incident was judged.

So far the only things for the public to go by are the Mercedes overtaking notes which were dismissed by FIA and the "must hit apex" no one ever heard of before the incident.

I'm not surprised at the scale of the arguments this has caused since there is no published black and white rule on how overtaking should be conducted.

[Sieper]

Actual images

[Just_a_fan]

EDIT: And Max isn't anywhere near as far alongside in this incident, and Horner is adamant it's Max's corner.

Nice find and exactly shows the two faced nature of Horner. If Max is on the inside, it's Max's corner, if anyone else is on the inside then "OMG he's trying to kill him!".

A shame that none of the interviews with Horner brought that up. No doubt if they had he'd have shouted "51g, man! 51g!".

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

[Tvetovnato]

Nice find and exactly shows the two faced nature of Horner. If Max is on the inside, it's Max's corner, if anyone else is on the inside then "OMG he's trying to kill him!".

A shame that none of the interviews with Horner brought that up. No doubt if they had he'd have shouted "51g, man! 51g!".

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

Here is another take on Horner’s double standards when it comes to Max:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... ton-anger/

[godlameroso]

Nice find and exactly shows the two faced nature of Horner. If Max is on the inside, it's Max's corner, if anyone else is on the inside then "OMG he's trying to kill him!".

A shame that none of the interviews with Horner brought that up. No doubt if they had he'd have shouted "51g, man! 51g!".

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

That's conjecture, Hamilton hesitated before he hit Verstappen, he almost backed out of the corner, I'm guessing Verstappen thought he had the corner which is why he took it as normal. It's impossible to see a car there, that is literally the mirror blind spot on ANY car.

I agree that Verstappen tried to impose his will, but he did not hesitate one bit, not like Hamilton did. His intentions were clear from a mile away.

[Just_a_fan]

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

Here is another take on Horner’s double standards when it comes to Max:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... ton-anger/

Exactly:

It was Horner who said of Turn 1 Barcelona this year, “Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well.

“He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence.”

But that's ok for Horner. Max can chuck it up the inside like that but how dare anyone do it to him. Horner would have blamed Hamilton if there had been contact - I can hear it now: "Why did he try to go around the outside; he caused the accident by not backing out.".

[Just_a_fan]

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

That's conjecture, Hamilton hesitated before he hit Verstappen, he almost backed out of the corner, I'm guessing Verstappen thought he had the corner which is why he took it as normal. It's impossible to see a car there, that is literally the mirror blind spot on ANY car.

I agree that Verstappen tried to impose his will, but he did not hesitate one bit, not like Hamilton did. His intentions were clear from a mile away.

Max turned in, released the lock and then turned in again. So, yes, he hesitated.

As for not knowing the car was there or not, then you don't turn in. That's "Not having an accident: 101".

[dans79]

That's conjecture, Hamilton hesitated before he hit Verstappen, he almost backed out of the corner, I'm guessing Verstappen thought he had the corner which is why he took it as normal. It's impossible to see a car there, that is literally the mirror blind spot on ANY car.

I agree that Verstappen tried to impose his will, but he did not hesitate one bit, not like Hamilton did. His intentions were clear from a mile away.

Sorry but you are wrong on both counts, watch max's onboard. as he starts to turn in you can see Lewis's front left endplate by Max's front right tire.

Also max's on onboard footage shows he knew Lewis was there, because right as Lewis's endplate comes into frame Max momentarily straightened out the wheel before turning in again.

[El Scorchio]

It's not two faced, the two incidents are similar but not equal. When Max and Lance collided, Stroll's car wasn't a write-off, there was no destroyed wheel, there was no impact against the wall, Stroll did not need to go to the hospital to get checked out. His race wasn't ruined(he ruined his own race if we're honest), it was a practice incident. I will say that Verstappen was lucky all he got was a grilling from the Mongolian government.

What happened between Hamilton and Verstappen was not the same, it was during the race, the car was destroyed, the impact between the two cars was much greater, at much higher speed. Hamilton almost backed out of it, Verstappen probably thought Hamilton was going to give him the corner so he took it.

I think the only thing missing from Hamilton's penalty is a few points on his license. I don't think it warrants retroactively changing the race results. Besides Mercedes needs all the extra help it can get, because it won't get its 8th title if it only races on track fairly, not at this rate anyway.

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

Here is another take on Horner’s double standards when it comes to Max:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... ton-anger/

In a nutshell 'He can’t be proud of the way his driver gives no quarter wheel-to-wheel but simultaneously criticise the rival for the same attitude.'

[Just_a_fan]

My guess is that it will go like this:

FIA: what new evidence do you have?
RedBull: we want Mercedes to face the consequences of our smashed car
FIA: but what is the new evidence?
RedBull: We had almost 2 million worth of damage, we want a raceban!
FIA: so, no new evidence?
RedBull: Its so unfair!

You forgot:

Red Bull: 51g, man! 51g!
FIA: Oh, wow, you're so right. Ban him for life and strip him of all his titles!

[Just_a_fan]

Actual images

Wow, Charles took a really wide line in to Copse on that lap!

[godlameroso]

All entirely irrelevant. It doesn't matter how much damage was caused to the car, or whether a driver needed more or less intervention from the medical systems, etc.. That's all a red herring.

The only thing that matters is that Max did exactly what Hamilton did and in that case Horner said "it was Max's corner" and yet last week "it wasn't Hamilton's corner".

That's conjecture, Hamilton hesitated before he hit Verstappen, he almost backed out of the corner, I'm guessing Verstappen thought he had the corner which is why he took it as normal. It's impossible to see a car there, that is literally the mirror blind spot on ANY car.

I agree that Verstappen tried to impose his will, but he did not hesitate one bit, not like Hamilton did. His intentions were clear from a mile away.

Max turned in, released the lock and then turned in again. So, yes, he hesitated.

As for not knowing the car was there or not, then you don't turn in. That's "Not having an accident: 101".

That was a twitch on the steering wheel at best, the trajectory of his car was constant. Hamilton slowed down while he was along side Verstappen but not enough. Funny he almost did the same thing to Leclerc, the fact he didn't do the same move a second time shows that he knew what he did the first time. Unlike Perez who punted Leclerc twice in Austria.

[Big Tea]

I think the stewards will have learned a lot from this.
Mostly, in future if its a racing incident, call it a racing incident and let it go, or it will come back and bite you if you try to appease one side against the other

[Just_a_fan]

That's conjecture, Hamilton hesitated before he hit Verstappen, he almost backed out of the corner, I'm guessing Verstappen thought he had the corner which is why he took it as normal. It's impossible to see a car there, that is literally the mirror blind spot on ANY car.

I agree that Verstappen tried to impose his will, but he did not hesitate one bit, not like Hamilton did. His intentions were clear from a mile away.

Max turned in, released the lock and then turned in again. So, yes, he hesitated.

As for not knowing the car was there or not, then you don't turn in. That's "Not having an accident: 101".

That was a twitch on the steering wheel at best, the trajectory of his car was constant. Hamilton slowed down while he was along side Verstappen but not enough. Funny he almost did the same thing to Leclerc, the fact he didn't do the same move a second time shows that he knew what he did the first time. Unlike Perez who punted Leclerc twice in Austria.

How does less lock make the trajectory constant? Do Red Bull have a lot of slack in their steering system?

Ultimately, if Max didn't know where Hamilton was, he should have assumed he was still there somewhere. Just like Hamilton did 2 corners before when Max came up the inside of him and they didn't crash.