When customer F1 constructors outscoring full-works factory f1 constructors

[theriusDR3]

The phenomenon of customer F1 constructors outscoring full-works factory f1 constructors sometimes happened in certain years, here are the examples:
1. Williams beating Toyota in 2007 (Williams was Toyota's customer)
2. McLaren beating Renault twice in 2019 and 2020 (McLaren was Renault's customer)
3. McLaren beating Mercedes three times in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (McLaren was Mercedes's customer)
4. Red Bull beating Renault three times in 2009, 2010 and 2011 (in 2011 Renault was rebranded to Lotus Renault GP)

Any additions?

Only Ferrari never being beaten by their customer teams in Formula 1 overall constructor standings in the history to date.

[NathanOlder]

1984 , 1985 Lotus outscored Renualt.

[Jolle]

1984 , 1985 Lotus outscored Renualt.

Lots of Renault… no wonder they don’t lease out their engines anymore

[NathanOlder]

1984 , 1985 Lotus outscored Renualt.

Lots of Renault… no wonder they don’t lease out their engines anymore

Maybe it just points to Renault being a decent engine supplier and not a decent chassis builder.

[EvilPhil II]

3. McLaren beating Mercedes three times in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (McLaren was Mercedes's customer)

I think this may be a regular misconception. I thought that effectively McLaren was a works Mercedes effort until the end of 2012 with Mercedes having a 40% stake of ownership in McLaren.

However, as I was writing that, I have noticed that McLaren bought back a 29% stake in March 2010, leaving Mercedes with an 11% stake of ownership.

The remaining 11% was bought back in late 2011 (i understand).

So arguably the 2010 and 2011 could be argued to be works (partly) status.

[Just_a_fan]

1984 , 1985 Lotus outscored Renualt.

Lots of Renault… no wonder they don’t lease out their engines anymore

Their 3.5L V10s in the Williams and Benetton in the 1990s were pretty damn good. They weren't running their own team of course.

[NL_Fer]

Torro Rosso beat Redbull in 2008

[wesley123]

Super Aguri beat Honda in 2007. Brawn GP outscored McLaren in 2009(Then, McLaren was Mercedes' works team)

[AtlasZX]

1979: Barbham (7pts) > Alfa Romeo (0pts)
1985: Osella (best result:7th) > Alfa Romeo (best result:9th)

[adrianjordan]

Torro Rosso beat Redbull in 2008

Nice twist on the topic!! I like it!!

[adrianjordan]

Super Aguri beat Honda in 2007. Brawn GP outscored McLaren in 2009(Then, McLaren was Mercedes' works team)

Imagine how different the noughties might have been if neither of those had happened.

If Honda hadn't underperformed so badly in 2007, and subsequently 2008, maybe they'd have stuck around to see the success of their 2009 design.

That would have meant no BrawnGP and possibly no option for Mercedes to buy their own team.

They would likely have stuck it out with McLaren in that case, possibly using Spygate as a motivation to force Ron Dennis out of the race team and bring in their own management, perhaps we'd have seen Toto and Lauda (RIP) at McLaren along with Lewis. Would they still have had the same level of success? Who knows!

With Honda sticking around would we have seen Bruno Senna given his chance and, in a decent car, had some respectable results, meaning he'd have stuck around in the sport for longer.

Would Schumacher have ever made his come back? Unlikely, perhaps he wouldn't have been skiing when he was and would still be his old self

As for current drivers, would Norris be driving for McLaren? Would Lewis have stuck around? Bottas might have joined Williams, but where then?

Or perhaps, BMW still pull out and Merc buys Sauber.....

F1 should hire Marvel to make a What If series about F1!!