Nope. I love my etron. The acceleration off the line is amazing. It's comfortable and refined, yet has plenty of power when I want it. AND it's cheap to run.
you didnt read correctly. i did not ask whether any buyer would choose a mustang v8 over some performance EV.
i gave the option of buying a Mustang with a V8 over Mustang with a 3-cylinder turbo.
I must say, a Mustang V8 is one of the least appealing road cars for me. Not only would it bleed me dry but it’s just bad at everything a road car should do. Besides that, it screams compensation anxiety.
enjoy a grey, 'given up on life' 3-cylinder base aygo then.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
you didnt read correctly. i did not ask whether any buyer would choose a mustang v8 over some performance EV.
i gave the option of buying a Mustang with a V8 over Mustang with a 3-cylinder turbo.
I must say, a Mustang V8 is one of the least appealing road cars for me. Not only would it bleed me dry but it’s just bad at everything a road car should do. Besides that, it screams compensation anxiety.
enjoy a grey, 'given up on life' 3-cylinder base aygo then.
The best car I’ve ever had: 20 year old Renault Twingo with open top. Fit the whole family with room to spare, cheap, park it anywhere without worries to dent it, incredible cheap to run and could carry lots of stuff. Drove around in that with a big smile on my face. Oh, and my dog loved it.
I don’t need a penis extension. The twingo can turn in a two person bed in 2 minutes. (even quite comfortable with my 210cm)
And if given the opportunity; ANY car buyer would prefer to have a Audi A6 or a Mustang with a V8, over a 3-cylinder turbo. And any Ferrari buyer or Lamborghini buyer will gladly have an exotic V12 over a 4cylinder or a full electric.
"ANY" car buyer???
Nope. I love my etron. The acceleration off the line is amazing. It's comfortable and refined, yet has plenty of power when I want it. AND it's cheap to run.
you didnt read correctly. i did not ask whether any buyer would choose a mustang v8 over some performance EV.
i gave the option of buying a Mustang with a V8 over Mustang with a 3-cylinder turbo.
I suggest Sir goes and looks at the Koenigsegg Gemera before making out that 3 cylinder engines are rubbish...
And Mustangs make sense in the US where the roads are straight and people only care about quarter times. In places where the roads are twisty, the Mustang is a, ahem, one trick pony. A great muscle car, not a great sports car.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
It's funny how people are living with their heads still in the 70s.
And once again people really don't understand the point. It isn't actually about the Mustang, you can take any car with a sporty engine. Audi V8, BMW V8, you can take the Mercedes V12.
If you can choose between a 3-cylinder in that car, versus a full blown V8 or V12, no matter how impressive the 3cyl will be - people would PREFER the V8 or V12. Why? Even IF they made the same horsepower figures (which obviously they dont but just lets go at it) then the V8 or V12 will still SOUND like instant glory. THIS is what it is all about, the experience, the emotion.
I'm also not talking about nurburgring lap capability.
Would a 1.0 L 800 HP 3-cylinder turbo engine be impressive? damn yes, obviously.
Now let's go for a 4.0 L 1200 HP V12 engine. Guess which one will be experienced as meteoric? Yes, the latter.
Funny how people start talking about 'compensation' and driving dead old cars as if that's any better when talking and looking @ Formula 1, the supposed pinnacle.
'Mustangs' dont matter because supposedly they dont corner - clearly spoken by people whom havent actually driven one, nor the old, nor the new - but then completely ignore
that F1 cars wont do well on the full complete nurburgring. They won't even finish one lap if they go all out. Which means the current top car that has set the lap record on the Nurburgring would be better than an F1 car. No, they're not. They're different.
A bunch of Twingo's on a racetrack racing eachother is fantastic fun. But if we're looking at pure bred motorsport, it stands zero chance against V8 supercars.
Why do people buy BMW M3's, Audi RS4's, Mercedes AMG's ? Not because they actually drive that well, hell, you can't go harder than 30 in urban areas and 80 in general freeways, and before you know it you're at the next traffic light.
People buy these cars because the emotion it sets loose. They want to live, not be dead in a dead society, and could care less about the jalousy of other people.
F1 has been turned in a grey mass, and drivers are complaining for years about how the lack of proper sound and a decent engine makes F1 absolute fun.
Again, a clear example was when Alonso drove past Hamilton in a V10 powered car and Hamilton was captivated.
This is what F1 should be: that magical untouchable emotion.
A 3-cyl 1.0 turbo engine with fuel flow restrictions is never ever going to set up any emotion. It's interesting on paper, especially if it has to last 10 GP's.
But a full blown V12 4.0 high-revving engine without fuel flow restrictions is another beast alltogether.
These impressive 3 cylinder stuff should belong in classes like GP2, GP3, etc.
Let F1 go for insane tech, not castrated tech.
I don't want to see a F1 car on the track that has the same engine as the Dacia Logan of the neighbour.
And the truth is, no F1 driver wants to either. The lack of choice, imposed by the rules, has them without alternatives.
Yet now we are facing a possibility of a return of meteoric super engines, thanks to Synth fuels.
Formula E has proven that electric racing ins't really on people's calenders or interest. It's fun, it's okay, and yes it has it's impressiveness.
A twingo cup, or a swift cup, or cups like that are great fun too and are also watched.
But we don't want F1 to be formula E, or twingo cup.
A synthetic fueled Ferrari V12, vs a Mercedes V8, versus a Renault V10, etc. without the stupid fuel castration.
Otherwise it's like buying a Pagani Zonda, and imposing a speed limiter of 130 KPH.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
These impressive 3 cylinder stuff should belong in classes like GP2, GP3, etc.
Let F1 go for insane tech, not castrated tech.
A V12 putting out 1000bhp isn't "insane tech", it's relatively easy. Insane tech is getting that from a small engine and other gubbins.
A synthetic fueled Ferrari V12, vs a Mercedes V8, versus a Renault V10, etc. without the stupid fuel castration.
Otherwise it's like buying a Pagani Zonda, and imposing a speed limiter of 130 KPH.
The Zonda does have a speed limiter of 130kph.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
These impressive 3 cylinder stuff should belong in classes like GP2, GP3, etc.
Let F1 go for insane tech, not castrated tech.
A V12 putting out 1000bhp isn't "insane tech", it's relatively easy. Insane tech is getting that from a small engine and other gubbins.
A synthetic fueled Ferrari V12, vs a Mercedes V8, versus a Renault V10, etc. without the stupid fuel castration.
Otherwise it's like buying a Pagani Zonda, and imposing a speed limiter of 130 KPH.
I could see the v10's coming back with synth fuels that are carbon neutral. It would tick ALL of the boxes then...
The V10's probably won't be making a comeback, that ship has sailed.
I think eventually F1 will probably end up running with hydrogen fuel cells or similar
technology. ICE is yesterday's technology, most of the research by the big manufacturers is going towards
Battery electric vehicles and Hydrogen fuel cells (both will be needed for different applications).
I could see the v10's coming back with synth fuels that are carbon neutral. It would tick ALL of the boxes then...
The V10's probably won't be making a comeback, that ship has sailed.
I think eventually F1 will probably end up running with hydrogen fuel cells or similar
technology. ICE is yesterday's technology, most of the research by the big manufacturers is going towards
Battery electric vehicles and Hydrogen fuel cells (both will be needed for different applications).
Most, if not all, of the fuel companies will be spending A LOT on developing a carbon neutral synth fuel that can replace petrol.
At which point ICE's make sense again.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
And if given the opportunity; ANY car buyer would prefer to have a Audi A6 or a Mustang with a V8, over a 3-cylinder turbo. And any Ferrari buyer or Lamborghini buyer will gladly have an exotic V12 over a 4cylinder or a full electric.
"ANY" car buyer???
Nope. I love my etron. The acceleration off the line is amazing. It's comfortable and refined, yet has plenty of power when I want it. AND it's cheap to run.
you didnt read correctly. i did not ask whether any buyer would choose a mustang v8 over some performance EV.
i gave the option of buying a Mustang with a V8 over Mustang with a 3-cylinder turbo.
No, I didn't misread. The conversation was EV vs ICE. You then brought up the 3 cylinder turbo. That wasn't the only option though was it.
And I'd choose not to buy a Mustang at all.
Also my etron is an SUV, not a performance EV. Really shows how little knowledge you have of the EV side of the argument.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren
Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻♂️
I could see the v10's coming back with synth fuels that are carbon neutral. It would tick ALL of the boxes then...
The V10's probably won't be making a comeback, that ship has sailed.
I think eventually F1 will probably end up running with hydrogen fuel cells or similar
technology. ICE is yesterday's technology, most of the research by the big manufacturers is going towards
Battery electric vehicles and Hydrogen fuel cells (both will be needed for different applications).
Most, if not all, of the fuel companies will be spending A LOT on developing a carbon neutral synth fuel that can replace petrol.
At which point ICE's make sense again.
They are already spending money on synthetic fuels, which rely upon a source of hydrogen that is produced using renewable energy. I expect the majority of cars will be EV and hydrogen fuel in the future, with ICE as a niche. F1 will have some tough choices ahead, especially if synthetic fuels don't pan out as envisioned.
Anyway just wish Mercedes would hurry up and announce whose got the second seat in 2022.
There's nowhere to go after the current 1.6T except fully electric, while staying road relevant. I think F1 will need to embrace the spectacle angle and go for a really interesting naturally aspirated V10/V12 with synthetic fuels.
Formula E has exclusivity over fully electric race cars, so even if it wanted to, F1 couldn't go there.
German automotive constructors have changed their minds, they will follow electric evolution, but will push hard to keep fuel engines on the market the more is possible, because their supremacy in automotive industry is based a lot on engine and will be lost.
The V10's probably won't be making a comeback, that ship has sailed.
I think eventually F1 will probably end up running with hydrogen fuel cells or similar
technology. ICE is yesterday's technology, most of the research by the big manufacturers is going towards
Battery electric vehicles and Hydrogen fuel cells (both will be needed for different applications).
Most, if not all, of the fuel companies will be spending A LOT on developing a carbon neutral synth fuel that can replace petrol.
At which point ICE's make sense again.
They are already spending money on synthetic fuels, which rely upon a source of hydrogen that is produced using renewable energy. I expect the majority of cars will be EV and hydrogen fuel in the future, with ICE as a niche. F1 will have some tough choices ahead, especially if synthetic fuels don't pan out as envisioned.
Anyway just wish Mercedes would hurry up and announce whose got the second seat in 2022.
If they dont concede to electric, hydrogen makes most sense for F1.
Electric is generating electricity, storing it with high efficiency (albeit low density) and using it with an efficient drivetrain.
Hydrogen is taking the same energy, storing it inefficiently (because you lose part of the energy in producing hydrogen), but with medium density, and feeding it to a moderately efficient drivetrain. Not really sensible for commuting, but the range gains may outweigh the energy losses for certain heavy-duty applications. F1 could be one.
Synfuel is just storing the same energy very inefficiently (you need many processing steps, making hydrogen, capturing CO2, synthesising hydrocarbons), albeit at high density, and feeding it to a (mature) inefficient drivetrain. Sensible only for very niche applications and aviation. No amount of development by carmakers will change that, as the large amount of energy loss is inherent to the many processing steps (more steps always means more losses), and the lossy nature of ICEs. If F1 goes this direction, thats fine, but its purely for show. As long as green energy is not abundant (which it will not be for decades) synfuel can by no means be called green, as it requires huge amounts of extra energy that could have been used to green up other applications. Since F1 itself is a minor consumer, it's fine if they use synfuel for spectacle. But if the larger car market would use synfuel to keep the ICE alive, that would set back energy transition ambitions immensely.
Last edited by DChemTech on 29 Aug 2021, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
Something to consider, and I don't know if it's a + or a -, is that the weight of a fully fuelled EV is the same as an empty one. You can bet that any contest we see will only have minimal fuel in the ICE car, not 'topped off', which would be a fair way, but , It is what it is.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
These impressive 3 cylinder stuff should belong in classes like GP2, GP3, etc.
Let F1 go for insane tech, not castrated tech.
A V12 putting out 1000bhp isn't "insane tech", it's relatively easy. Insane tech is getting that from a small engine and other gubbins.
A synthetic fueled Ferrari V12, vs a Mercedes V8, versus a Renault V10, etc. without the stupid fuel castration.
Otherwise it's like buying a Pagani Zonda, and imposing a speed limiter of 130 KPH.
Plus, in Europe is land of the natural nemesis of the American muscle car: the roundabout (which are actually quite fun in a 3 cylinder Aygo).
Say Whaaa...
Dang son, them Duke boys'll soon show you how a big ol' Charger gits 'em roundabouts done 'n' dusted!
(& no, it sure aint GGI, that's stunt driver Rhys Millen, driving)
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
(even quite comfortable with my 210cm)
