2021 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 27 - 29

[Pany]

There was 2 days of practice and qualifying very complicated. It is part of the whole race WE

[WaikeCU]

I'm guessing race control or the management of F1 and the management of the Spa circuit were responsible for yesterday's action I think. I think they all agreed on the outcome that benefits all parties, except the fans.

They did the bare minimum on Sunday to declare the outcome of all parties without any refunding necessary legal wise. Spa came out clean, F1 came out clean. Spa didn't have to refund the fans, F1 didn't have to refund Spa. The fans who were disappointed will be back next year nonetheless even with the shitshow of yesterday.

[DChemTech]

There was 2 days of practice and qualifying very complicated. It is part of the whole race WE

Exactly. The rules could, and should have been more clear on what happens procedurally when there is no opportunity to race. But let's be honest, this was a rather unique situation - and rules are often written in hindsight.

That there was no race, doesn't mean no points should be awarded. There still was a team effort in the days prior in which some drivers/teams stood out, for which they deserve to be rewarded. Now it feels unsatisfactory that the procedure was made up on the fly and the whole thing was a big mess, sure, but still, points are in place. Russell/Williams in particular took a gamble and won, for which they should be credited.

And yeah, it's mostly Hamilton fans that complain now, whereas Verstappen fans are largely silent. Logically, they benefitted. I have no doubts it would be the other way around had their positions been swapped. But for once, luck (and Stewards decisions) fell in Verstappen's favor rather than Hamilton's. Soit.

No points to the FIA/stewards for execution, but in the end the decision to essentially give points on qualifying merits is, in my view, the right one (even though in this case there were even some mutations to that, as Sieper pointed out). Let's hope next time it's just known upfront that that's how it will be.

[mclaren111]

I'm guessing race control or the management of F1 and the management of the Spa circuit were responsible for yesterday's action I think. I think they all agreed on the outcome that benefits all parties, except the fans.

They did the bare minimum on Sunday to declare the outcome of all parties without any refunding necessary legal wise. Spa came out clean, F1 came out clean. Spa didn't have to refund the fans, F1 didn't have to refund Spa. The fans who were disappointed will be back next year nonetheless even with the shitshow of yesterday.

Amen...

[Edax]

I think the ambient sunlight in the background must be considered when we compare past monsoon type races. Spa was very foggy and dark today.

No it wasn’t foggy at all. And the light was also not really an issue.

That’s the problem I have with this. If this becomes the new norm, then it basically means the end of rain racing.

This is quite foggy if you ask me. And keep in mind F1 always adjusts the cameras to brighten the image and reduce noise as needed.

https://today.in-24.com/sport/content/u ... b115ad.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E99i3OrX0AApMsG.jpg

I was actually at the track. It was interesting to see on the trackside monitors how much worse it looked on camera. Just to give an indication, standing at Bruxelles you could see the cars down at bus stop. I guess that is about 2 km distance.

Not that I am questioning the decision not to run. That should be the call by the drivers, and I trust them to make a fair judgement.

But if they are not able to run under these conditions then F1 has to urgently look at visibility in relation to car design. Because F3 was able to start in worse conditions this weekend.

Otherwise F1 cannot afford putting tracks like Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, A1, Etc on the calendar. Because this was no monsoon. It was a typical Northern European drizzle. Persistent and annoying, but in no way exceptional.

[Sieper]

There was 2 days of practice and qualifying very complicated. It is part of the whole race WE

Exactly. The rules could, and should have been more clear on what happens procedurally when there is no opportunity to race. But let's be honest, this was a rather unique situation - and rules are often written in hindsight.

That there was no race, doesn't mean no points should be awarded. There still was a team effort in the days prior in which some drivers/teams stood out, for which they deserve to be rewarded. Now it feels unsatisfactory that the procedure was made up on the fly and the whole thing was a big mess, sure, but still, points are in place. Russell/Williams in particular took a gamble and won, for which they should be credited.

And yeah, it's mostly Hamilton fans that complain now, whereas Verstappen fans are largely silent. Logically, they benefitted. I have no doubts it would be the other way around had their positions been swapped. But for once, luck (and Stewards decisions) fell in Verstappen's favor rather than Hamilton's. Soit.

No points to the FIA/stewards for execution, but in the end the decision to essentially give points on qualifying merits is, in my view, the right one (even though in this case there were even some mutations to that, as Sieper pointed out). Let's hope next time it's just known upfront that that's how it will be.

Was it Verstappen that benefitted, he was the one out in front, with no spray. The rest was in even more danger. He could have gained 25 points also.

[RZS10]

I'd argue that the most likely outcome would have been him in P1 and Lewis in P2 ... so a difference of 2 points without any risk and one race distance less on the engine - good deal.

[Mr.S]

There was 2 days of practice and qualifying very complicated. It is part of the whole race WE

Exactly. The rules could, and should have been more clear on what happens procedurally when there is no opportunity to race. But let's be honest, this was a rather unique situation - and rules are often written in hindsight.

That there was no race, doesn't mean no points should be awarded. There still was a team effort in the days prior in which some drivers/teams stood out, for which they deserve to be rewarded. Now it feels unsatisfactory that the procedure was made up on the fly and the whole thing was a big mess, sure, but still, points are in place. Russell/Williams in particular took a gamble and won, for which they should be credited.

And yeah, it's mostly Hamilton fans that complain now, whereas Verstappen fans are largely silent. Logically, they benefitted. I have no doubts it would be the other way around had their positions been swapped. But for once, luck (and Stewards decisions) fell in Verstappen's favor rather than Hamilton's. Soit.

No points to the FIA/stewards for execution, but in the end the decision to essentially give points on qualifying merits is, in my view, the right one (even though in this case there were even some mutations to that, as Sieper pointed out). Let's hope next time it's just known upfront that that's how it will be.

Was it Verstappen that benefitted, he was the one out in front, with no spray. The rest was in even more danger. He could have gained 25 points also.

That is true. He was the one in a commanding position. Overall we give points for Sprint so why not 3/2/1 Points each for P1, P2 & P3 on qualifying. Would make qualifying more interesting & people will stop this race pace setup. Qualifying goes on for an hour while Sprint goes for much less. As a matter of fact, Qualifying is more than half the race (in terms of time allotment) for many races.

Secondary, while I am happy to see Verstappen win, I am also happy to see Russel on the podium. I like the new batch - Russel, Verstappen, Leclerc, Norris - they may turn out better than Hamilton, Button, Raikkonen, Alonso.

Squashing the race would have benefitted Mercedes. And they go scot free while Russel's heroics & Verstappen's pole account for nothing. Pole in Monaco decides everything. In weather like this, qualifying is a big decider.

I would suggest 25% point allocation - Even lower than 50% if the race doesn't go 75% of the way. Give 6.25, 4.5, 3.75 etc. It is almost nothing. But there should some classification if the race gets cancelled !

[Mr.S]

I'd argue that the most likely outcome would have been him in P1 and Lewis in P2 ... so a difference of 2 points without any risk and one race distance less on the engine - good deal.

Doubtful. The Mclaren looked strong in the wet with Norris & Riccardo's race pace was there. Ashton Martin also looked good in the wet & Vettel is fine in these circumstances. Russel (maybe in the dry was vulnerable) in the wet would have been a handful too.

So you can argue from P2 to P5 for Hamilton. Bottas was also too down to help with strategy. Another thing is Mercedes has no fresh inters while RB had one extra & the wet Pirelli tyre was garbage. Verstappen certainly had a huge advantage as he was the only with somewhat reasonable visibility !

[Mr.S]

No it wasn’t foggy at all. And the light was also not really an issue.

That’s the problem I have with this. If this becomes the new norm, then it basically means the end of rain racing.

This is quite foggy if you ask me. And keep in mind F1 always adjusts the cameras to brighten the image and reduce noise as needed.

https://today.in-24.com/sport/content/u ... b115ad.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E99i3OrX0AApMsG.jpg

I was actually at the track. It was interesting to see on the trackside monitors how much worse it looked on camera. Just to give an indication, standing at Bruxelles you could see the cars down at bus stop. I guess that is about 2 km distance.

Not that I am questioning the decision not to run. That should be the call by the drivers, and I trust them to make a fair judgement.

But if they are not able to run under these conditions then F1 has to urgently look at visibility in relation to car design. Because F3 was able to start in worse conditions this weekend.

Otherwise F1 cannot afford putting tracks like Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, A1, Etc on the calendar. Because this was no monsoon. It was a typical Northern European drizzle. Persistent and annoying, but in no way exceptional.

Morning or early afternoon races should be explored & they should also look @ good quality lights in some of these tracks ! Visibility issues should be explored otherwise you will never have those amazing wet races where legends are made of. Also, the 3 hour & 2 hour rule should both be scrapped. Canada 2011 was a legendary race & we need more of those while ensuring safety of the drivers !

[flmkane]

Imma post an unpopular(ish) opinion and hope to get some insightful replies.

Tire wars need to come back in order to save wet races. The Michelin, Bridgestone and Goodyear tyres were far better in the wet. Pirellis have sucked in the wet for ten years.

Tire wars gave us exploding tires and canceled races. Control tires give us exploding tires and canceled races too.

[Juzh]

..... Mercedes gambled on a dry race and made the wrong call, but also benefitted from not having to run their dry race set up in a wet race. ....

I am still surprised by this assumption. Nothing in the data supports this:
- All top speeds are well sorted by the engines. Except for the usually low drag AT, you can see Merc engine cars on the top. Everyone bolted on all downforce they had and we see the naturally more grunge of the Merc engine as expected. This was discussed in the week before the race already, that Spa is a track where you see an engine advantage also in the wet.
- Ham had always one of the best S2 in Q. Clearly speaks against a dry setup...
- One of the major differences was the bus stop. Ham neither came out well to start the lap, nor did he get through it on the lap. This was the only place where the Bull was clearly better.
- Rus was clearly better in La Source and Pouhon, ~0.3sec each. If you look at the lap comparisons you can see the Merc and the Bull being better everywhere else on the track but the drivers bottled it in La Source and Pouhon. Ham and Rus bottled a bit the Bus Stop, this is where all the loss in the end came to Verstappen. With the natural speed of the cars extracted more similar, we would have had Ver and Ham very close and Rus being about 0.6sec behind them.

Furthermore there is no real "wet setup" anymore. Tire pressures are on the low limit, ride height is only changed by the tire diameter, wings are clearly visible and according to the top speeds they were fairly similar.

I disagree with this post almost entirely. Williams correctly predicted lots of rain for quali and clearly ran with a big rear wing in the context of this track. As a result they were slow on the straights, even with mercedes PU.
Red bull/williams rear wing:


This corelates perfectly with observed performance trough the lap. Williams is fast in corners and not so much on the straights. Check clip below


Mercedes went with a medium DF wing (the one hamilton used on friday, the higher downforce version) with much higher AOE compared to red bull but not as much as williams. It's true mercedes are getting saved by their engine (again) because even with so much wing they were reasonably faster than red bull on straights.

But it isn't true that everyone bolted on all downforce they could and just run with it, as red bull clearly didn't, not by a long shot.

[Mr.S]

Let's be honest here, with all the bashing, we're forgetting a simple truth.

Today would go down as a memorable race whatever would happen. The decision to 'cancel' the race and just fulfill some bureaucratic rule by doing some 4 laps may go down obviously as a memorable and 'dubious' race - the other side of the coin is that if they DID have a race, then we could have had a serious accident, perhaps even a fatal one.

Fact is, decisions made by the stewards mean drivers kept their lives, teams kept their cars in one piece, and for their 'effort' points were given.
the crowd being disappointed is a form of acceptable 'damage' in my opinion.

Either way, let's hope this also helps to have people forget their nonsense of the past weeks/months.
Hamilton got lucky and 'served' win dinner on a plate by the FIA according to many, and perhaps with a bit of reason.
However, let's be fair - despite him doing his work on saturday, Max was given the win today, he needed do nothing.
He has come back close to Hamilton without any real effort.

This is just how the sport goes, but that - imo - goes for what happened in Silverstone too.
So let's just take this weekend as one that goes down as one of the most confusing races in history,
and let it be what it is - a race result.

It was no ‘race’ a race involves a chance of wining, losing, overtakes and being overtaken. None of that is true.

By this logic, Monaco isn't a race !

[DChemTech]

There was 2 days of practice and qualifying very complicated. It is part of the whole race WE

Exactly. The rules could, and should have been more clear on what happens procedurally when there is no opportunity to race. But let's be honest, this was a rather unique situation - and rules are often written in hindsight.

That there was no race, doesn't mean no points should be awarded. There still was a team effort in the days prior in which some drivers/teams stood out, for which they deserve to be rewarded. Now it feels unsatisfactory that the procedure was made up on the fly and the whole thing was a big mess, sure, but still, points are in place. Russell/Williams in particular took a gamble and won, for which they should be credited.

And yeah, it's mostly Hamilton fans that complain now, whereas Verstappen fans are largely silent. Logically, they benefitted. I have no doubts it would be the other way around had their positions been swapped. But for once, luck (and Stewards decisions) fell in Verstappen's favor rather than Hamilton's. Soit.

No points to the FIA/stewards for execution, but in the end the decision to essentially give points on qualifying merits is, in my view, the right one (even though in this case there were even some mutations to that, as Sieper pointed out). Let's hope next time it's just known upfront that that's how it will be.

Was it Verstappen that benefitted, he was the one out in front, with no spray. The rest was in even more danger. He could have gained 25 points also.

True true. Maybe I'm just so used to Verstappen being boned out by a Mercedes or random tire blowout that I see him crossing the line in a good position as a win already
But yeah, one could also view the damage limitation as luck once again falling Hamilton's way. Anyway, main point, I do think it's fair points were awarded, even if the way in which it happened deserves little praise.

[Tvetovnato]

If there's no race, there should be no points. This was a shame for F1, not because they didn't race, but because they couldn't make up their mind and tried to classify 3-4 laps behind safety car as a race. The rules need to change as in, if there's no green flag on track at any point during a GP, there is no race.

That makes no sense, there is a reason why the two lap, half points rule exists. Forget the entertainment of the fans portion of the side for a moment and think about the logistics of the championship, the work done by the teams to prepare for the race and the drivers having qualified. All of that for nothing? That would be the biggest shame and farce to teams who are competing. Qualifying is the measure that actually previews what a race outcome should be on pure one lap pace. If a race can only be a few laps and under 1/3 distance, well, qualifying pace without the toe and drs sets your order. Same way FP3 serves as qualifying if it cannot be held.

There are a few more aspects to it, there was a driver with a grid penalty for taking 5 cars out of the previous race. Should that (lenient) penalty also be just brushed under the carpet. At least now he has served it.

If any of the drivers (like Perez and stroll’s team with the wing) made a mistake in these slow laps they lost the points even.

No, the most sensible thing is just to have the penalties served the next race instead, when there actually IS a race.

I truly don’t understand how anyone can be happy with this whole thing, no matter who you support. Mindblowing.