2021 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 27 - 29

[cooken]

The biggest issue is this:
- everyone and their dog knew that conditions were NOT good enough to race and NOT improving
- the directors sent the SC and drivers out with full knowledge of this, and with ZERO intention of doing anything more than completing a 2 lap procession

The event we witnessed was wholly to placate the various stakeholders, nothing more, and it was done under the guise of "attempting to clear enough water to get a race under way". Everyone knew it wasn't going to happen. Thus it was a farce, and a contrived "race" result.

[Mogster]

I think the initial attempt to start the race was justified. Packing up with no attempt to race would have provoked derision also. It’s the second start that’s the problem. It was obvious by the way the cars and drivers are sloppily prepared that everyone involved knew it was a 2 lap drive round the circuit to tick contractual boxes.

Procedures need to be in place for when this happens again. The cars need to be better able to run in wet weather, climate change may mean more events like this.

[basti313]

Will they reimburse the tickets ? This will be a worse travesty than indy '05, if they don't.

I dont think they will, well they certainly trying to wriggle out of it hence calling it a race.

Technically the fans came, they saw a race. they went home.

A 2-lap race. Makes Pure ETCR even worth watching.

My mate who's new to F1 was watching the Belgian GP for the first time. He thought it was a 4hr waste of his time.

My other mate who worked for Honda was there with paddock access and he thought it was a waste of time as well waiting that long to make a decision and even sending the cars back out on track when conditions clearly were not improving at all. He actually got me a last minute invite for the Saturday, but I couldn't go since I was registered for a tournament I couldn't withdrew last minute either.

Just imagine I got invited for the Belgian GP on Sunday and finding out there wasn't one on the scene (well actually there was a GP)

Well....I think GP in Spa is one of the worst to attend.
- The situation on getting to the track is horrible like nowhere else. Traffic jams, parking, mud.
- The weather is bad, if the weather is not bad most likely you are still in the mud...
- The trackside locations are bad to watch the race. Even grandstands are not really nicely located. Except for the two Gold at the Bus Stop I see barely good locations...next year with flat Eau Rouge this is also gone.
- The entertainment is rather bad.
- Ticket prices are high. I got good grandstand tickets at Spore for the same money I can get a standing mud festival at Spa.

I love the track but this is one of the last, maybe the absolute last race I would watch on site.

[PlatinumZealot]

No it wasn’t foggy at all. And the light was also not really an issue.

That’s the problem I have with this. If this becomes the new norm, then it basically means the end of rain racing.

This is quite foggy if you ask me. And keep in mind F1 always adjusts the cameras to brighten the image and reduce noise as needed.

https://today.in-24.com/sport/content/u ... b115ad.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E99i3OrX0AApMsG.jpg

I was actually at the track. It was interesting to see on the trackside monitors how much worse it looked on camera. Just to give an indication, standing at Bruxelles you could see the cars down at bus stop. I guess that is about 2 km distance.

Not that I am questioning the decision not to run. That should be the call by the drivers, and I trust them to make a fair judgement.

But if they are not able to run under these conditions then F1 has to urgently look at visibility in relation to car design. Because F3 was able to start in worse conditions this weekend.

Otherwise F1 cannot afford putting tracks like Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, A1, Etc on the calendar. Because this was no monsoon. It was a typical Northern European drizzle. Persistent and annoying, but in no way exceptional.

The drivers said couldn't see so cant deny that fact. Remember, you are up in the stands looking down a less than fifty meters in front just like the cameras. The drivers are at over 150mph they need clearer horizon to race safely.

If a Norris-like incident happened at Eau Rouge again, no doubt there would be a chain of nasty full speed collisions following immediately and we would have another dead driver on our hands.

[PlatinumZealot]

Imma post an unpopular(ish) opinion and hope to get some insightful replies.

Tire wars need to come back in order to save wet races. The Michelin, Bridgestone and Goodyear tyres were far better in the wet. Pirellis have sucked in the wet for ten years.

Tire wars gave us exploding tires and canceled races. Control tires give us exploding tires and canceled races too.

Tyres with higher pumping rate would have made the situation worse actually. More spray in the air. Only way it would make a difference - by drying the track faster - was if the rainfall reduced, but it didnt.

[WaikeCU]

I dont think they will, well they certainly trying to wriggle out of it hence calling it a race.

Technically the fans came, they saw a race. they went home.

A 2-lap race. Makes Pure ETCR even worth watching.

My mate who's new to F1 was watching the Belgian GP for the first time. He thought it was a 4hr waste of his time.

My other mate who worked for Honda was there with paddock access and he thought it was a waste of time as well waiting that long to make a decision and even sending the cars back out on track when conditions clearly were not improving at all. He actually got me a last minute invite for the Saturday, but I couldn't go since I was registered for a tournament I couldn't withdrew last minute either.

Just imagine I got invited for the Belgian GP on Sunday and finding out there wasn't one on the scene (well actually there was a GP)

Well....I think GP in Spa is one of the worst to attend.
- The situation on getting to the track is horrible like nowhere else. Traffic jams, parking, mud.
- The weather is bad, if the weather is not bad most likely you are still in the mud...
- The trackside locations are bad to watch the race. Even grandstands are not really nicely located. Except for the two Gold at the Bus Stop I see barely good locations...next year with flat Eau Rouge this is also gone.
- The entertainment is rather bad.
- Ticket prices are high. I got good grandstand tickets at Spore for the same money I can get a standing mud festival at Spa.

I love the track but this is one of the last, maybe the absolute last race I would watch on site.

It would have been with paddock access if I've gotten in with my mate. So I think I would have been above the old pitlane seeing the run down towards Eau Rouge watching the GP.

I'm well aware of the Ardennes region myself. It would have been a regular Ardennes like weekend.

[basti313]

A 2-lap race. Makes Pure ETCR even worth watching.

My mate who's new to F1 was watching the Belgian GP for the first time. He thought it was a 4hr waste of his time.

My other mate who worked for Honda was there with paddock access and he thought it was a waste of time as well waiting that long to make a decision and even sending the cars back out on track when conditions clearly were not improving at all. He actually got me a last minute invite for the Saturday, but I couldn't go since I was registered for a tournament I couldn't withdrew last minute either.

Just imagine I got invited for the Belgian GP on Sunday and finding out there wasn't one on the scene (well actually there was a GP)

Well....I think GP in Spa is one of the worst to attend.
- The situation on getting to the track is horrible like nowhere else. Traffic jams, parking, mud.
- The weather is bad, if the weather is not bad most likely you are still in the mud...
- The trackside locations are bad to watch the race. Even grandstands are not really nicely located. Except for the two Gold at the Bus Stop I see barely good locations...next year with flat Eau Rouge this is also gone.
- The entertainment is rather bad.
- Ticket prices are high. I got good grandstand tickets at Spore for the same money I can get a standing mud festival at Spa.

I love the track but this is one of the last, maybe the absolute last race I would watch on site.

It would have been with paddock access if I've gotten in with my mate. So I think I would have been above the old pitlane seeing the run down towards Eau Rouge watching the GP.

I'm well aware of the Ardennes region myself. It would have been a regular Ardennes like weekend.

That would be excellent of course, but this is rather not the usual thing.
I was rather talking about the usual paying spectator
There it is a pity that the German tracks are out. I guess Zandvoort is a much better choice for the money.

[Edax]

This is quite foggy if you ask me. And keep in mind F1 always adjusts the cameras to brighten the image and reduce noise as needed.

https://today.in-24.com/sport/content/u ... b115ad.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E99i3OrX0AApMsG.jpg

I was actually at the track. It was interesting to see on the trackside monitors how much worse it looked on camera. Just to give an indication, standing at Bruxelles you could see the cars down at bus stop. I guess that is about 2 km distance.

Not that I am questioning the decision not to run. That should be the call by the drivers, and I trust them to make a fair judgement.

But if they are not able to run under these conditions then F1 has to urgently look at visibility in relation to car design. Because F3 was able to start in worse conditions this weekend.

Otherwise F1 cannot afford putting tracks like Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, A1, Etc on the calendar. Because this was no monsoon. It was a typical Northern European drizzle. Persistent and annoying, but in no way exceptional.

The drivers said couldn't see so cant deny that fact. Remember, you are up in the stands looking down a less than fifty meters in front just like the cameras. The drivers are at over 150mph they need clearer horizon to race safely.

If a Norris-like incident happened at Eau Rouge again, no doubt there would be a chain of nasty full speed collisions following immediately and we would have another dead driver on our hands.

I explicitly said I wasn’t questioning the drivers. I am just questioning your statement that the conditions where exceptionally bad.

And you have to make up your mind, you first say that you can’t really judge the conditions from camera, and now you say that you can’t really judge conditions from track. Anyway it is a personal judgement. It may be based on walking the northern tracks for over 30 years, but a personal judgement nevertheless. If you disagree with me that is perfectly fine.

Look, these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
1) conditions we’re not bad
2) drivers couldn’t see.

For me that points to a car related visibility issue.

What I think is happening is that with these downforce setting and tires the 2021 cars are simply dumping more or denser spray on the next driver than in the past.

[NL_Fer]

I actually had a great day in Spa, visiting the Qually and all support races on Saturday. I was on the grandstand 3 hours after i left, and it normally would a 2u40 drive.

So yeah, cheap Saturday tickets and a tank of gas is a good deal to visit Spa on Saturday’s.

[PlatinumZealot]

I was actually at the track. It was interesting to see on the trackside monitors how much worse it looked on camera. Just to give an indication, standing at Bruxelles you could see the cars down at bus stop. I guess that is about 2 km distance.

Not that I am questioning the decision not to run. That should be the call by the drivers, and I trust them to make a fair judgement.

But if they are not able to run under these conditions then F1 has to urgently look at visibility in relation to car design. Because F3 was able to start in worse conditions this weekend.

Otherwise F1 cannot afford putting tracks like Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, A1, Etc on the calendar. Because this was no monsoon. It was a typical Northern European drizzle. Persistent and annoying, but in no way exceptional.

The drivers said couldn't see so cant deny that fact. Remember, you are up in the stands looking down a less than fifty meters in front just like the cameras. The drivers are at over 150mph they need clearer horizon to race safely.

If a Norris-like incident happened at Eau Rouge again, no doubt there would be a chain of nasty full speed collisions following immediately and we would have another dead driver on our hands.

I explicitly said I wasn’t questioning the drivers. I am just questioning your statement that the conditions where exceptionally bad.

And you have to make up your mind, you first say that you can’t really judge the conditions from camera, and now you say that you can’t really judge conditions from track. Anyway it is a personal judgement. It may be based on walking the northern tracks for over 30 years, but a personal judgement nevertheless. If you disagree with me that is perfectly fine.

Look, these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
1) conditions we’re not bad
2) drivers couldn’t see.

For me that points to a car related visibility issue.

What I think is happening is that with these downforce setting and tires the 2021 cars are simply dumping more or denser spray on the next driver than in the past.

In bold text, that is taking it too far now. Can you measure the spray? Best chance is to compare the water displacement rate of these tyres with previous ones. Any spray "standing" will also be affected by environmental conditions, wind and humidity.

It's easier to accept that the day was foggy and the drivers had low visibility beyond the spray. If you want to get scientific, F1 cars have no head-lights so outside of of the tail-light of leading cars, all light reaching from behind the spray has to come from the Sun. When there is ambient fog and high cloud cover - what do you get? Poor visibility beyond the spray. Change rain tyres all you want, raise the seat up 6 inches too. Situation would still be too dangerous to race in.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good wet race and I am sorry for all the fans, but this is the first time I have heard almost all drivers saying call the race off, and carefully weighing up everything I have to agree with them. I would have loved to have the race today on Monday, but it was not to be.

[Edax]

The drivers said couldn't see so cant deny that fact. Remember, you are up in the stands looking down a less than fifty meters in front just like the cameras. The drivers are at over 150mph they need clearer horizon to race safely.

If a Norris-like incident happened at Eau Rouge again, no doubt there would be a chain of nasty full speed collisions following immediately and we would have another dead driver on our hands.

I explicitly said I wasn’t questioning the drivers. I am just questioning your statement that the conditions where exceptionally bad.

And you have to make up your mind, you first say that you can’t really judge the conditions from camera, and now you say that you can’t really judge conditions from track. Anyway it is a personal judgement. It may be based on walking the northern tracks for over 30 years, but a personal judgement nevertheless. If you disagree with me that is perfectly fine.

Look, these two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
1) conditions we’re not bad
2) drivers couldn’t see.

For me that points to a car related visibility issue.

What I think is happening is that with these downforce setting and tires the 2021 cars are simply dumping more or denser spray on the next driver than in the past.

In bold text, that is taking it too far now. Can you measure the spray? Best chance is to compare the water displacement rate of these tyres with previous ones. Any spray "standing" will also be affected by environmental conditions, wind and humidity.

It's easier to accept that the day was foggy and the drivers had low visibility beyond the spray. If you want to get scientific, F1 cars have no head-lights so outside of of the tail-light of leading cars, all light reaching from behind the spray has to come from the Sun. When there is ambient fog and high cloud cover - what do you get? Poor visibility beyond the spray. Change rain tyres all you want, raise the seat up 6 inches too. Situation would still be too dangerous to race in.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good wet race and I am sorry for all the fans, but this is the first time I have heard almost all drivers saying call the race off, and carefully weighing up everything I have to agree with them. I would have loved to have the race today on Monday, but it was not to be.

For sure, I have no problem with the race being cancelled and have no intention of asking my money back. Actually I had a brilliant weekend with some car crazy friends and watched some good racing.

And I rather have no race than ending up with a black weekend as we unfortunately had too often. The feeling that someone got sent to hospital or worse for your entertainment is not a nice one.

I do feel sorry for those who only came for the race only.

Sorry for the bold, wanted to be clear not offensive. But can you imagine me tellingly that it is raining in you place while you looking outside your window and see a blue sky.

Of course that is metaphorical. The sky wasn’t blue, but I saw zero fog. The drivers also did’t complain of fog or rain or of darkness but of spray. So while I am not able to measure tyre displacement and all that sort of stuff it is not that big a leap to assume that the current cars have a an issue there.

[ispano6]

You guys are hilarious, so yesterday it was Lewis getting lucky? He lost 5 points to his rival without any racing. If you see that as luck falling Hamiltons way then I totally understand why you see Lewis as the luckiest driver on the grid.

Come on, I did not say that. I said that yesterday was mostly luck falling in Max's direction for once - and that there are certain perspectives in which Lewis is lucky too. The world isn't completely black-and-white.

Seriously, if you factor how lucky Lewis has been to benefit from Imola red flag, taking out Max, Valterri causing Lando to destroy half of Max's car, Max's getting 5pts closing the gap in championship shouldn't even be called luck. He earned pole position and as pole sitter of the race was entitled to a clear track ahead and everyone behind had to suffer poor visibility, the same as they would dirty air. Lewis complained about visibility, well, tough luck.

[zeph]

I feel sorry for all the fans that attended the “race”. I spent $75 to watch it on TV without success, but that does not compare to standing in the rain for hours and get nothing.

[dxpetrov]

Yes, Lewis was again massively lucky. If the race had happened he would have lost even more points against Max.

[hugobos]

Daniel Ricardo explained why racing in those conditions was unsafe, this is not a fanboy thing . Wich of our idols is more lucky. Or has tough luck. This was about Safety for all.