Track wetness indicators

[Jolle]

One way of getting an indication is getting data from other cars and somehow out that into a model to get some indicators.

Maybe combined with some kind of lidar cameras around the track to spot small differences in hight
This would be more for race control and info for the engineers to coach the drivers, I don’t see drivers having some 3D map in front of them or get a number so they know how far they can push. More a warning to not take any chances, like a automatic yellow/red flag.

[Fulcrum]

The combination of the tyres, cars, weather, track, safety guidelines, and more, created the situation we observed this weekend.

Each of the listed factors are far more readily, and effectively, addressable than inventing an expensive solution for an extreme edge case scenario.

[PlatinumZealot]

Any contributions to this new system is welcomed.

We have all heard the tyre complaints before. This thread is not for that.

What are the merits of this system and has anything ever been invented before?

I just don't understand how this would work from a sensor perspective. I don't think a sensor exists that could do this accurately enough for F1.

So first step, invent something that doesn't exist.

Or, solve the problem the basic way, rather than looking for complicated technologies that can fail and give false results.

"The most reliable part of any system is no part" ie if you don't have a part that isn't needed, then that part cannot fail.

Yes. These sensors exist. I used them when I was in the food industry. Very reliable sensors. Used to detect food on tank walls versus water vs air etc. Capacitance from tip of sensor to tank wall is measured and calibrated as needed.

You could use another type of sensor if you wish. Or simply measure water running through a drain or something simple like that. You could do this optically as well.

[Zynerji]

Could just re-pave the entire Spa circuit with this:
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mag ... wsource=cl

[Hoffman900]

Could just re-pave the entire Spa circuit with this:
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mag ... wsource=cl

See my post on the first page. I have experience with this stuff.

I like the technology, but its use is limited, and it definitely wouldn’t work as a racing surface.

[hollus]

Plus ça change... from 2006!
viewtopic.php?t=3138

[Viper2789]

Surely PZ there is the ultimate solution..

Encase all tracks in a huge "bubble". We can capture the CO2 and chose our own "weather" based on votes....

Anyway enough of my silly suggestions...

[nzjrs]

The weekend taught us the only thing that mattered was driver visibility, and even the most fancy schmancy surface wetness indicator is only going to be a proxy for visibility, so why not just attempt to measure visibility.

[Jolle]

The weekend taught us the only thing that mattered was driver visibility, and even the most fancy schmancy surface wetness indicator is only going to be a proxy for visibility, so why not just attempt to measure visibility.

In this case it was visibility most of all. There are plenty of tracks where standing water is a big issue.

[CMSMJ1]

Once upon a time there were races noted for the atrocious conditions and the cream rose to the top - The ability to setup and run in these conditions is surely possible - it used to happen for longer races, with poor equipment on more dangerous tracks in the same weather. Visibility in the rain is one of the issues that will never be negated - so you live with it.

I cannt see a sensor being the right way to do this - the lower formulae have completed races in this shitty weather. F1 should be allowed to change settings if wet race declared and get the cars configured to manage better the rain.

We already don't really run in the wet - SC start and then only going green when the cars can use intermediates. That doesn't encourage proper wet tyre use or development - no-one expects to use them in anger as the races are not started, or stopped, if raining enough.

[CMSMJ1]

Once upon a time there were races noted for the atrocious conditions and the cream rose to the top - The ability to setup and run in these conditions is surely possible - it used to happen for longer races, with poor equipment on more dangerous tracks in the same weather. Visibility in the rain is one of the issues that will never be negated - so you live with it.

I cannt see a sensor being the right way to do this - the lower formulae have completed races in this shitty weather. F1 should be allowed to change settings if wet race declared and get the cars configured to manage better the rain.

We already don't really run in the wet - SC start and then only going green when the cars can use intermediates. That doesn't encourage proper wet tyre use or development - no-one expects to use them in anger as the races are not started, or stopped, if raining enough.

[piast9]

I think F1 drivers are able to predict the cornering grip on wet surface pretty well. It is not the reason for not racing in wet. The real problems IMO are the visibility and standing water on the straights which causes tyres to aquaplane and interacts with the plank.

[adrianjordan]

How will the venturi tunnels and increased importance of underfloor aero be affected by rain from next season?

[Edax]

Some interesting remarks by the drivers. Especially the remark by Vettel seems to suggest that there is some room for improvement on the tire side as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... y/6657654/

Gasly suggested that addressing the spray issue would be the best way to ensure that there isn't a repeat of last weekend.

I think we should work on trying to reduce the spray behind the cars, because that's the real thing.

Wet tyres are obviously the other key element in terms of spray, and Sebastian Vettel hinted that those of previous tyre supplier Bridgestone created less than the current Pirellis.

[Jolle]

Some interesting remarks by the drivers. Especially the remark by Vettel seems to suggest that there is some room for improvement on the tire side as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... y/6657654/

Gasly suggested that addressing the spray issue would be the best way to ensure that there isn't a repeat of last weekend.

I think we should work on trying to reduce the spray behind the cars, because that's the real thing.

Wet tyres are obviously the other key element in terms of spray, and Sebastian Vettel hinted that those of previous tyre supplier Bridgestone created less than the current Pirellis.

During the Bridgestone years the tires were also a lot narrower, as were the cars and had a lot less downforce. The width of this tire demands a lot of water to be expelled.