2021 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa-Francorchamps, Aug 27 - 29

[DChemTech]

Seriously, if you factor how lucky Lewis has been to benefit from Imola red flag, taking out Max, Valterri causing Lando to destroy half of Max's car, Max's getting 5pts closing the gap in championship shouldn't even be called luck. He earned pole position and as pole sitter of the race was entitled to a clear track ahead and everyone behind had to suffer poor visibility, the same as they would dirty air. Lewis complained about visibility, well, tough luck.

May I agree with you, Ispano6?

I suppose? Max making ground on Hamilton's lead is not luck. Since there were only laps behind the safety car, the grid order determining the race outcome is a given. What triggered me is NathanOlder's unintelligible comment that alluded to Lewis being unlucky to losing 5pts in his lead to Max in the championship without having a chance to race Max to defend it. I was simply highlighting that Max didn't have a chance to race Lewis in Silverstone or Hungary and lost WAY more points and the lead relative to Hamilton. NathanOlder shouldn't even be complaining given the farce those two races were. I meant absolute no offense to DChemTech at all.

Luck is always a bit of a tricky word
Max's "luck" was that he didn't have to put serious effort in winning the race - that he was the one in winning position was a result of skill.
As one could view Lewis' luck in Hungary that he was not hit in the melee while his main competitor was (but it was also due to Lewis' skill that he was in a position that was not affected).
My main take here was that in cases where there were some external factors at play (partially or fully affecting the outcome), in the vast majority of cases the outcome fell towards the benefit of Lewis. In this case, the outcome of "Zero points of half points" fell towards the benefit of Max - that it was him mostly benefitting is a matter of skill, but it could have turned out that his efforts were not at all rewarded. (In any case, no offense taken )

[i70q7m7ghw]

So the final race classification only shows 1 lap classified, which doesn't meet the requirement for half points https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

EDIT: Ignore me, it's explained on the very same document

Results have been calculated in accordance with Article 51.14 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations, namely at the end of lap 1 being the penultimate lap
before the lap during which the signal to suspend the race was given. However, for the determination of points, Article 6.5 is applicable, the leader having crossed
the Control Line 3 times, therefore complying with the requirement for the leader to have completed more than 2 laps in order for half points to be awarded

This does make it seem like they did the absolute minimum running required to get a classification...

[ThumbsUp]

But will Max get an extra 0,5 point for the fastest lap then?

[nzjrs]

But will Max get an extra 0,5 point for the fastest lap then?

I thought Mazepin had the fastest lap?

[i70q7m7ghw]

But will Max get an extra 0,5 point for the fastest lap then?

I thought Mazepin had the fastest lap?

Not on Lap 1, which is the only lap that is classified.

[nzjrs]

But will Max get an extra 0,5 point for the fastest lap then?

I thought Mazepin had the fastest lap?

Not on Lap 1, which is the only lap that is classified.

The dreams of Haas crushed again.

[Wouter]

But will Max get an extra 0,5 point for the fastest lap then?

Possibly another half a point for Verstappen? "We'll check it out"

According to the German media, there is a chance that no extra half-point will be awarded for the fastest lap this time, as the regulations require it to be a 'valid lap'.
The only classified lap was one that started from the pit lane and covered 6.88km.
A normal lap at Spa however is 7.004 kilometres. To be continued undoubtedly...

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/92569/po ... t-out.html

[ThumbsUp]

Delete please

[ThumbsUp]

I thought Mazepin had the fastest lap?

The dreams of Haas crushed again.

Well he wasn’t in the top 10, so he wouldn’t get it anyway. But with a red flag the lap before counts as classification. So that’s why I asked if Max would get it.

But as others mentioned it should be a valid lap and it wasn’t so nobody gets to set a fastest lap.
Not on Lap 1, which is the only lap that is classified.

[nzjrs]

It was a joke (the dreams part). Haas twitter was all over the Joke.

[piast9]

Just for giggles:

[PlatinumZealot]

You didn't say anything offensive at all, so no worries there. You said in bold that the poor visibilty was likely caused by the cars/technical regs and I replied that is hard to prove; it likely wouldn't have been much better even with different technical regulations. (better tyres, taller seating position).

Thanks, I don’t think you can solve this with tires or seating position. But do think aero plays a mayor role. Say the “plume” at a certain distance behind the car is 4 meters wide and 4 meters high, if you increase that to 10x10 meters then the density lowers by a factor 6 which should have a significant effect on forward visibility. Plus the higher the water gets the easier it is blown of track.

My guess is that F1 has been doing the exact opposite by chasing low drag downforce. The floor allows them to use skinny rear wings that gives less upkick. Also they are feeding the rear with air they get around the front tires. Then there are little bits and pieces like reducing tire squirt.

Assuming the water displacement of the tires is the same I would assume that this all leads to a smaller but denser spray plume.

I think this is a good explanation. But the issue is:
- Next year the floor plays a much bigger role.They will have more spray from the floor in the future.
- They did not cover the wheels like in FE. This reduces strongly the spray from the wheels. But I do not know if this would do a big difference...if you look at the spray pattern it is more centered on a F1 car, I think already today the floor generates much more small drop spray than the wheels.

I have some doubt about the parts in bold. Someone more knowledgeable can comment..

The floor just moves over the water and pushes the air between. Then that deflected air, vortices and all, disturbs some amount of water, but that amount would just be surface stuff, it's like using a weak leaf blower versus a broom. In addition to that the floor sucks in the spray from the tyres. But the floor itself doesn't throw up much water, I reckon it's actually pushing and displacing the water at the leading edge, and the vortices then suck up some of that stuff and stuff from the wheels.

These new floors will be more efficient and have more space under them, they should rely less on vortices and more on the venturi effect. My theory is that they should lift less water, similar to how a hydrofoil boat has less wake because less turbulent interaction with the water below.

On current cars, the diffuser and Rear wing greatly sucks the tyre spray inward and upward giving the impression that a large portion is coming from the floor if you look at it from a low angles to the side. But from above, you can see the spray plume mostly originates from the tyres.







One possible reason why we could see more spray in 2022 however, is if the front entrance of the floor more strongly "sucks" in the spray from the front tyres, or from the car ahead, but this is sort of unlikely.

[PlatinumZealot]

So the final race classification only shows 1 lap classified, which doesn't meet the requirement for half points https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... cation.pdf

EDIT: Ignore me, it's explained on the very same document

Results have been calculated in accordance with Article 51.14 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations, namely at the end of lap 1 being the penultimate lap
before the lap during which the signal to suspend the race was given. However, for the determination of points, Article 6.5 is applicable, the leader having crossed
the Control Line 3 times, therefore complying with the requirement for the leader to have completed more than 2 laps in order for half points to be awarded

This does make it seem like they did the absolute minimum running required to get a classification...

You know.. you got me thinking..
Give the drivers go-karts, and let them race for points would have been more acceptable than no race.

[NL_Fer]

I though the same, either go karts or gt racers, it would only take 2 trailers more…

[DChemTech]

I though the same, either go karts or gt racers, it would only take 2 trailers more…

Soapbox racing down radillon/eau rouge

Or with a bit more rain, a good old "ter land, ter zee of in de lucht", met glans van de schans!