Track wetness indicators

[ojlopez]

Some interesting remarks by the drivers. Especially the remark by Vettel seems to suggest that there is some room for improvement on the tire side as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... y/6657654/

Gasly suggested that addressing the spray issue would be the best way to ensure that there isn't a repeat of last weekend.

I think we should work on trying to reduce the spray behind the cars, because that's the real thing.

Wet tyres are obviously the other key element in terms of spray, and Sebastian Vettel hinted that those of previous tyre supplier Bridgestone created less than the current Pirellis.

Both drivers are right, the problem to solve is spray. Maybe redesign the thread patters so all the water is expelled to the outboard side? As right now, the rear thread pattern seems to be made to disperse the water in all directions.

[Zynerji]

How about another wheel scraper? Like the 2022 "fin" that goes over top of the tyre, but at the 5 o'clock position so the rear of the tyre can't launch the spray upward?

[CMSMJ1]

How about another wheel scraper? Like the 2022 "fin" that goes over top of the tyre, but at the 5 o'clock position so the rear of the tyre can't launch the spray upward?

If mechanical solutions are possible then why not fit them to the cars when wet race is declared.
FIA designed rain guards. Mandatory high DF wings.
Get them out and running on full wets and get the races done

[mzso]

Some interesting remarks by the drivers. Especially the remark by Vettel seems to suggest that there is some room for improvement on the tire side as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... y/6657654/

Gasly suggested that addressing the spray issue would be the best way to ensure that there isn't a repeat of last weekend.

I think we should work on trying to reduce the spray behind the cars, because that's the real thing.

Wet tyres are obviously the other key element in terms of spray, and Sebastian Vettel hinted that those of previous tyre supplier Bridgestone created less than the current Pirellis.

Another reason to abandon the foolishness of dragging around four uncovered cylinders at up to 300+km/h.

I think with well designed covering the picked upwater could be expelled back on the track as proper liquid water, maybe to the sides, to help clear up a dry line.
Instead of being aerosolized into the air to create mist.

Not sure how much would the diffuser pick up. But I would expect that to remain in more benign larger droplets and/or maybe thrown up higher and be less obtrusive.

Also, how hard it is to put on some powerful red LED light for poor visibility instead (or beside) of the week ones on the wing?

Also, why not actual extreme rain tires. (so intermediate, rain, extreme rain) I remember someone mentioning that "monsoon" tires used to exist, but stopped hauling it around because it saw no use. But watching weather broadcasts and knowing tracks would prevent this issue.

[mzso]

Both drivers are right, the problem to solve is spray. Maybe redesign the thread patters so all the water is expelled to the outboard side? As right now, the rear thread pattern seems to be made to disperse the water in all directions.

Is that even realistically possible? I can't see how you could get the water to neatly go towards the outside from the inner edge of the tire.

[jknights]

Or, and this is a bit of a crazy madcap idea, have wet tyres that can actually cope with rain!!!!

Remember in the Bridgestone era the inter could cope with most rain and the full wet was more of a monsoon tyre!!

Time and again Pirelli has been found to be wanting under modern racing.
We need to return to multiple tyre suppliers i.e. Pirelli, Bridgestone, Michelin, etc..
This will probably or possibly require a change of rule regarding tyre changes during the race.

[adrianjordan]

Both drivers are right, the problem to solve is spray. Maybe redesign the thread patters so all the water is expelled to the outboard side? As right now, the rear thread pattern seems to be made to disperse the water in all directions.

Is that even realistically possible? I can't see how you could get the water to neatly go towards the outside from the inner edge of the tire.

I'm going to guess that it is. Only because of advances in fluid dynamics etc. Moving water would seem easy compared to using exhaust gases to affect the flow of air over a side pod!!

[Hoffman900]

Or, and this is a bit of a crazy madcap idea, have wet tyres that can actually cope with rain!!!!

Remember in the Bridgestone era the inter could cope with most rain and the full wet was more of a monsoon tyre!!

Time and again Pirelli has been found to be wanting under modern racing.
We need to return to multiple tyre suppliers i.e. Pirelli, Bridgestone, Michelin, etc..
This will probably or possibly require a change of rule regarding tyre changes during the race.

Except the reason there is so much spray is because the tires are doing their job.

Slick tires on a wet track make a lot less spray.

Really, this is an open wheel problem, then paired with aero that throws the spray everywhere.

[UlleGulle]

Really, this is an open wheel problem, then paired with aero that throws the spray everywhere.

Just a crazy idea. How about standardized rear mudguards only fitted when wet weather tyres are obligatory?

That should steer the spray downwards.

[Jolle]

Wheel guards are an option when it’s just spray. Spa is a rare case where standing water isn’t the main issue, like on other circuits. There is actually a tiny window where it’s just spray preventing racing and not problems like the helicopter not able to take off or a line of sight between marshal posts.
This is just one of those instances, very rare, tough luck.

[mzso]

There is actually a tiny window where it’s just spray preventing racing and not problems like the helicopter not able to take off or a line of sight between marshal posts.

Not my impression. The helicopter doesn't care much about rain, much more about visibility (like fog) and wind.

Just a crazy idea. How about standardized rear mudguards only fitted when wet weather tyres are obligatory?

But why only cover the wheels for wet races? Open wheels don't make a lick of sense from any angle.
Horrible aerodynamically, spray water everywhere, a safety hazard, both for people on and off the track. There's no advantage to having them out in the open.

[GOAT]

Permeable pavement works well for frost as it drains into the engineered sub base.

No it doesn’t- and a lot of highways in the Netherlands are proofing that every winter.

https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/strenge-vo ... ~acfb4498/

“ De schade ontstaat door water of gesmolten sneeuw dat in het asfalt sijpelt. Als het vocht uitzet ontstaan er scheuren in het wegdek.”

//

“The damage is caused by water or melted snow seeping into the asphalt. When the moisture expands, cracks appear in the road surface.”

The used asphalt is ‘ZOAB’ aka ‘very open asphalt’.

https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeer_open_asfalt

[Airshifter]

They already have track wetness indicators in F1. It's called driver feedback.

I'll all behind useful tech, but sensors in a track isn't the way to go. With the monster budgets in F1 they could easily have a number of rain intensity stations around the track, and use them to determine if the drivers can race. If they can race, use the SC, then transition to the VSC for higher speeds, and allow them to bunch back up for the start.

The current wet tires aren't the greatest, but I think there would be little room to use tire design to clear the water to a specific area (side) more. The more the water was cleared to the side, the less traction the tire would likely offer.

[Andres125sx]

Really, this is an open wheel problem, then paired with aero that throws the spray everywhere.

Just a crazy idea. How about standardized rear mudguards only fitted when wet weather tyres are obligatory?

That should steer the spray downwards.

Not that crazy IMO, actually I was going to post the problem has no easy solution as when a tire can evacuate enough water to prevent aquaplanning, then it creates spray and reduces visibility wich is another huge problem, or they can not evacuate enough water to prevent spray but then aquaplanning is the huge problem, but mudguards might solve both problems togheter with tires wich evacuate lots of water

[Big Tea]

They already have track wetness indicators in F1. It's called driver feedback.

I'll all behind useful tech, but sensors in a track isn't the way to go. With the monster budgets in F1 they could easily have a number of rain intensity stations around the track, and use them to determine if the drivers can race. If they can race, use the SC, then transition to the VSC for higher speeds, and allow them to bunch back up for the start.

The current wet tires aren't the greatest, but I think there would be little room to use tire design to clear the water to a specific area (side) more. The more the water was cleared to the side, the less traction the tire would likely offer.

Just mount a bell without a clanger on the front, it it rings its too wet