2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
User avatar
JordanMugen
85
Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

Hammerfist wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:03
cplchanb wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:46
JordanMugen wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:34





Or it's just built in the direction which is fastest? It's not like Benetton for instance deliberately made a car that was hard to drive, they just made the fastest car they could. It's not up to them to reinvent the wheel so Verstappen Snr, Herbert, Alesi or Berger could drive it better. Same goes for Red Bull.
think about it though... had the car been more balanced towards other drivers other than max it probably wouldve had compromises that would slow the cars overall pace down. max has been with the team since 2016 as markos prodigy so development since then was always going to be centered around him. they wont admit it, but max is their #1 driver like schumacher at ferrari hands down.
It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.
Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.

xaero
xaero
0
Joined: 20 Jul 2021, 09:18

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:18
Hammerfist wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:03
cplchanb wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:46


think about it though... had the car been more balanced towards other drivers other than max it probably wouldve had compromises that would slow the cars overall pace down. max has been with the team since 2016 as markos prodigy so development since then was always going to be centered around him. they wont admit it, but max is their #1 driver like schumacher at ferrari hands down.
It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.
Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.
What about the last minute chassis handicap that Merc got?
We need a miracle. We need only one racing lap.

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
28
Joined: 31 Mar 2021, 23:37

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

NathanOlder wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:52
So tomorrow Max needs to gap Bottas by a pitstop otherwise he finds himself behind him and a rolling road block, on a track where A, passing is very hard. B, the only real passing spot is where the Merc has an advantage over RedBull. Max may be on pole, but Merc certainly have a strong hand for tomorrow.
On paper I'd be inclined to agree with you, but in practice I fear this is Bottas we're talking about (he's no Alonso and normally gets overtaken easily imo) and if he is on older tyres after Max has just pitted for fresh rubber I think Max will fly past him.

The only positive to hang on to is it may be possible to retain the constructors lead if both Mercedes's finish well and Perez doesn't make too much progress

Augustus
Augustus
0
Joined: 30 Apr 2021, 12:04

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

Zynerji wrote:
30 Aug 2021, 20:44
Do we have any historic data for expected lap-times and pit strategies?
There is F1Stats.

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

grubschumi13 wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:23
This season has been Max vs Mercedes. Really he is putting that RBR where it does not belong.
#-o surreee!!! :lol:
You just fail to aknowledge the reality. :roll:

Anyways.... great effort by Latifi. It was a good showing. He may well just make George a little less heroic by end of season.
Its hard to see less than 50% casualties in tomorrow's race. The track doesnt give the drivere much rest.
Hamilton really pushed hard to get that lap.
He can win on tyre deg or good ole pressure.
For Sure!!

User avatar
Ryar
6
Joined: 31 Jan 2021, 17:28

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

xaero wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:22
JordanMugen wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:18
Hammerfist wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:03


It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.
Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.
What about the last minute chassis handicap that Merc got?
Rules are same for everyone.
Hakuna Matata!

User avatar
Ryar
6
Joined: 31 Jan 2021, 17:28

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

ringo wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:35
grubschumi13 wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:23
This season has been Max vs Mercedes. Really he is putting that RBR where it does not belong.
#-o surreee!!! :lol:
You just fail to aknowledge the reality. :roll:

Anyways.... great effort by Latifi. It was a good showing. He may well just make George a little less heroic by end of season.
Its hard to see less than 50% casualties in tomorrow's race. The track doesnt give the drivere much rest.
Hamilton really pushed hard to get that lap.
He can win on tyre deg or good ole pressure.
How many points does Latifi has and how many podiums? :lol:
Hakuna Matata!

Bill
Bill
8
Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

lewis lost three tenth in the first 2 sectors to max but recovered all of that on last sector that doesnt look normal to me i will like to know what merc are doing with their pu that agitated Honda to look for clarification from fia.something to do with how they cool their pu its on the "grey side".yes max had drs issues but that doesn't explain everything.merc should be ahead of Max if u look how they went in hungary.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

BlueCheetah66 wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:44

That is probably the biggest issue with trying to compare the cars that are close. For all we know the Red Bulls pace could be closer to Perez and Max could be pulling it further.
No. The pace is somewhere just a bit above what Max got. You can't go faster than the car is capable of going. Thus the faster of the driving pair is closer to the car's best pace.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

User avatar
F1NAC
170
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

SO neither HAAS will be penalised for impeding Vettel. Wow :wtf:

Hammerfist
Hammerfist
0
Joined: 06 Apr 2017, 04:18

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

JordanMugen wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:18
Hammerfist wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:03
cplchanb wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:46


think about it though... had the car been more balanced towards other drivers other than max it probably wouldve had compromises that would slow the cars overall pace down. max has been with the team since 2016 as markos prodigy so development since then was always going to be centered around him. they wont admit it, but max is their #1 driver like schumacher at ferrari hands down.
It is obvious hat the car is designed to suit his driving style. They are putting all their eggs in one basket. This is the first year that this philosophy seems to have worked but it ain’t over yet. Redbull’s resurgence had a lot to do with the curveball Mercedes got thrown with this years floor regulations. For me merc is still the superior constructor and next year it will be obvious once again. If verstappen doesnt win the wdc this year he may not be able to win one ever again with Redbull.
Maybe. This is the first year with hybrid turbos that Red Bull have had close to the same power level as Mercedes. If Mercedes had supplied Red Bull with power units say from 2016, then the comparison of chassis quality of Merc vs RB would be easier to make. With different power levels, it is harder to compare the relative quality of the chassis/aero.

User avatar
InsaneX_Badger
2
Joined: 04 Mar 2021, 16:03

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

Zynerji wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:03
Ryar wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:55
PlatinumZealot wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 16:54


Thanks. That little mistake almost cost him pole. Hmm. I still feel his car is set up on the nose. Heavily loaded front wing. Definitely a qually biased set up and one that should give him blistering outlaps but at the expense of outright tyre life. Will be interesting tomorrow for sure.
So far, everything points to Incidents filled circus tomorrow. Pit stops would come free.
I expect zero actual pit stops in the race.

Just 3 free tyre changes during red-flag periods... :roll:
This actually isn't a bad guess 😂

User avatar
MtthsMlw
1036
Joined: 12 Jul 2017, 18:38
Location: Germany

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

F1NAC wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:56
SO neither HAAS will be penalised for impeding Vettel. Wow :wtf:
The FIA statement reads like a bad joke especially after what happened in Austria this year

DChemTech
DChemTech
44
Joined: 25 Mar 2019, 11:31
Location: Delft, NL

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

Bill wrote:
04 Sep 2021, 17:51
lewis lost three tenth in the first 2 sectors to max but recovered all of that on last sector that doesnt look normal to me i will like to know what merc are doing with their pu that agitated Honda to look for clarification from fia.something to do with how they cool their pu its on the "grey side".yes max had drs issues but that doesn't explain everything.merc should be ahead of Max if u look how they went in hungary.
Nah, without the drs and shortshift issue, max would have had an extra 2 to 3 tenths. They were faster here.

zeph
zeph
1
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 11:54
Location: Los Angeles

Re: 2021 Dutch Grand Prix - Zandvoort Sept 3 - 5

Post

The modifications to the track are nuts, what with the banked turns and all. It use to be a more or less straight line from turn 8 to turn 13 back in the day. Exciting stuff.