2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[Juzh]

So I had a look at some telemetries. It seems norris either had an issue with PU or ran out of charge out of ascari and on the run to parabolica. He was 7 kmh off ricciardo (325 vs 332) and started to de-rate much earlier and harder. Without this it seems P3 was on the cards for him today.

[El Scorchio]

No one cares that RBR sacrificed Perez (again) for Max.

So when Merc tell Bottas to pull over for Hamilton tomorrow so he can get 3 points (since BOT is starting at the back anyway), there is not going to be a peep about it.

Right?

Haha exactly!

[dans79]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

The big question for me is How will Max do with Lando and Daniel right on his heels tomorrow, and most likely in the race as well. If it hadn't been for the perfectly executed tow I think he would have started 5th. I haven't had time to look at race pace yet.

[101FlyingDutchman]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

The big question for me is How will Max do with Lando and Daniel right on his heels tomorrow, and most likely in the race as well. If it hadn't been for the perfectly executed tow I think he would have started 5th. I haven't had time to look at race pace yet.

Take the new engine this race? Or too much risk as their pace advantage clearly isn’t that big? If they start in pits on a different tyre and out of the chicane and t2 melee, it might not be such a bad gamble

[i70q7m7ghw]

Yes it does. The man he is getting a tow from is a bit quicker on the straights because he himself is getting a tow.

That's not really how it works, it's not a literal tow with a rope

If a car gives a tow to the car behind it, and that car gives a tow to the car behind it, the car at the back gets the benefit of both tows.

A tow improves top speed (until you run out of gearing, of course). Driver A tows Driver B. Driver B is quicker than he would otherwise be. Driver C, if he is in the correct position, can gain a tow from Driver B. His own top speed will increase unless he hits the gearing/rev limits. Driver C's tow isn't as big as Driver B's, of course, but he will gain more than he would have if he'd only been behind one car. Obviously, if Driver B runs in to the rev limit, he can't gain and Driver C will also likely hit his limiter.

Again, it may work like that in computer games, but in real life it's not the case, particularly in F1 with the amount of turbulent air. The car ahead creates a drag reduction by creating an area of negative pressure, the fact there are two cars does not mean there is an additional effect.

[NathanOlder]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

The big question for me is How will Max do with Lando and Daniel right on his heels tomorrow, and most likely in the race as well. If it hadn't been for the perfectly executed tow I think he would have started 5th. I haven't had time to look at race pace yet.

Take the new engine this race? Or too much risk as their pace advantage clearly isn’t that big? If they start in pits on a different tyre and out of the chicane and t2 melee, it might not be such a bad gamble

I think Sochi will be better purely down to they will have more of a pace advantage over the midfield runners enabling themselves to fight back towards the podium. If they take a penalty here, they have no hope of catching Mercedes, Mclaren and maybe even Gasly

[Juzh]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

Do you think the rear wing tests have hurt them here ? Austria is full of high speed straights and Max dominated both weekends.

I wouldn't know that. My guess is as good as anyone's.

[i70q7m7ghw]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

There is only a slipstream, it doesn't "double".

[dans79]

The big question for me is How will Max do with Lando and Daniel right on his heels tomorrow, and most likely in the race as well. If it hadn't been for the perfectly executed tow I think he would have started 5th. I haven't had time to look at race pace yet.

Take the new engine this race? Or too much risk as their pace advantage clearly isn’t that big? If they start in pits on a different tyre and out of the chicane and t2 melee, it might not be such a bad gamble

I think Sochi will be better purely down to they will have more of a pace advantage over the midfield runners enabling themselves to fight back towards the podium. If they take a penalty here, they have no hope of catching Mercedes, Mclaren and maybe even Gasly

Even sochi is no guarantee based on what we have seen today.

[NathanOlder]

Take the new engine this race? Or too much risk as their pace advantage clearly isn’t that big? If they start in pits on a different tyre and out of the chicane and t2 melee, it might not be such a bad gamble

I think Sochi will be better purely down to they will have more of a pace advantage over the midfield runners enabling themselves to fight back towards the podium. If they take a penalty here, they have no hope of catching Mercedes, Mclaren and maybe even Gasly

Even sochi is no guarantee based on what we have seen today.

Yeah, I just think with way more corners, and slow corners like Baku, RedBull have a stronger chance for sure.

[dans79]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

There is only a slipstream, it doesn't "double".

For the love go man, everyone knows it it's a diminishing returns type of deal, no one said it doubles. More cars provide a stronger effect, but it's not linear, more like exponentially decreasing!

[nzjrs]

I guess this went more or less how everyone was expecting at the front, for the rest, AM weaker than expected, Ferrari a little stronger.

[RZS10]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

Do you think the rear wing tests have hurt them here ? Austria is full of high speed straights and Max dominated both weekends.

I wouldn't know that. My guess is as good as anyone's.

Is it even the same wing or is this one even shallower?

[zibby43]

No one cares that RBR sacrificed Perez (again) for Max.

So when Merc tell Bottas to pull over for Hamilton tomorrow so he can get 3 points (since BOT is starting at the back anyway), there is not going to be a peep about it.

Right?

I even think Mercedes will let Bottas stay ahead if he stays ahead in to turn 1.

They’ll just be throwing away points to Verstappen if they do that. Remember, it’s 3-2-1 for the top 3 finishers tomorrow.

In a championship where RBR are sacrificing Perez at every opportunity.

[i70q7m7ghw]

As predicted red bull is a dog on this track, 4 tenths in it. Verstappen only did that lap for P3 by being perfectly positioned for a double slipstream and I had doubts he'll be able to improve on second lap as soon as I saw that laptime. I suspect he'll have his mirrors full of Norris tomorrow, mercedes is out of reach.

There is only a slipstream, it doesn't "double".

For the love go man, everyone knows it it's a diminishing returns type of deal, no one said it doubles. More cars provide a stronger effect, but it's not linear, more like exponentially decreasing!

It's a negligible effect that doesn't deserve the title of "double".