Wind Power in F1

[Crystalix]

I had an idea for the future of F1

No in fact I just wanted some specialists to discuss my project.
Imagine : you put two small wind mills in sidepods, just in front of cooling system.

I calculate : if the diameter of the mill is 25cm, you can get 30ch at 300km/h with both of them. But 30ch permanently, instead of KERS !

So this system can save a lot of energy... Do you think it is reasonably possible to develop ?



this idea is a copyright 2009

[xpensive]

Fantasic idea you have there Crystalix, but why limit this to the sidepods, wouldn't a larger windmill on top of the air-intake behind the driver be more efficient?

[Dukeage]

Wouldn't it cause more drag though? Currently I don't think it's legal, however - under the rules that banned the early forms of KERS, oddly enough.

[flynfrog]

Are we forgetting physics all a wind turbine is doing is creating drag and not producing down force.

Any energy you get off the wind turbine is being robbed out of the engine. SO in effect (or is it affect still early) You dont have wind power at all you have what ever fuel you are using in the engine [-X

[roost89]

Are we forgetting physics all a wind turbine is doing is creating drag and not producing down force.

Any energy you get off the wind turbine is being robbed out of the engine. SO in effect (or is it affect still early) You dont have wind power at all you have what ever fuel you are using in the engine [-X

effect is correct

[ISLAMATRON]

Are we forgetting physics all a wind turbine is doing is creating drag and not producing down force.

Any energy you get off the wind turbine is being robbed out of the engine. SO in effect (or is it affect still early) You dont have wind power at all you have what ever fuel you are using in the engine [-X

Bingo, the key to increasing efficiency is reducing waste... what are the biggest wastes on a car? Well aero is huge, but mechanically it is heat loss in the engine and energy dissipated thru heat under braking. The first is minimised by turbocharging, using he energy of the exhaust to pressurise the incoming air to the engine. Regen braking is how to take care of the second biggest form of waste, but to be truly effective i needs to be on the front wheels where a majority of the braking is done.

[xpensive]

Kinetic energy loss at breaking is not the second biggest waste on an F1 car, not by a long shot. There is a specific thread on that by the way.

[ISLAMATRON]

Kinetic energy loss at breaking is not the second biggest waste on an F1 car, not by a long shot. There is a specific thread on that by the way.

Mechanically, Aero not included, as I stated.

[Shredcheddar]

What a huge challenge (or just massive headache for such small benefit) this would be: electric damping.

[Crystalix]

A larger wind turbine on the top of the air intake will increase drag. My idea was to include it in the sidepods. This won't affect air coming from the front.

Flynfrog, I know that a wind turbine doesn't produce downforce. I just wanted to "plug" it with an alternator which transform wind energy in electric energy ! Then you give extra power to the engine, just like electrical KERS does !

[ISLAMATRON]

sorry to burst your bubble buddy, but not a good idea... it would case much more drag and make the car slower and not make up for it in electrical energy produced.

[Crystalix]

Why more drag ? If the turbine are included in sidepods ? Just in front of radiators, for example.
Need a sketch ??

[alelanza]

Why more drag ? If the turbine are included in sidepods ? Just in front of radiators, for example.
Need a sketch ??

That would reduce the cooling ability of the design, thus requiring larger side pods thus creating more drag. Way i see it, the engine is the one moving those fans you're thinking of, meaning that once you account for energy losses, all you're doing is losing power. Otherwise you would be able to create a car that's self propelled with no fuel requirements.

[Crystalix]

[...] the engine is the one moving those fans

But... fans are moved by wind, not by any engine... I certainly misunderstood something in what you've said.

[machin]

It would be interesting to put some numbers to this based on some fan absorbed power curves... but the crux of it is that the energy required to drive the fans comes from the relative speed of the air and the car.... the engine creates this relative difference by pushing the car through the air.... so if the car travels at a given speed for a given power without the fan it'll need more power to travel at the same speed AND drive the fan due to the drag of the fan.... That's why Alelanza says the engine is driving the fan; its not linked with metal, but it is "linked" by the tyres, road and air......