2021 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, July 16 - 18

[Restomaniac]

Well Max can keep doing what he is doing.
He had a 32 point avdantage he could have only lost 7 today.
He is welcome to keep turning in with a car 90% alongside.
If cannot do basic math to realize he can play it safe and protect his run of points then he doesnt deserve to be champion.
Keep playing big bad red bully bull and see ehat happens when the points are counted at the end of the season.

Yep. He also needs to remember he’s up against a guy who has wheel to wheeled with some if the best. The same guy who had no problems getting dirty with a team mate when his team mate got REALLY aggressive. If he wants to keep going there he will come of worst because Hamilton has so many more miles on the clock with it.

[nimoraca]

What does it matter who has more space? What matters is that there is enough space. Max is not obliged to let his rival pass easily as if he were Bottas making space.

It matters because both of them can avoid the accident by using the given space, it's just that they do not want that space because it is on a slower line and would cost them the position.

And so its a racing incident, as I mentioned before. There is no ground to exclusively blame Max for not leaving space, as some seem to be keen on doing.

I agree, there isn't. To me it was nothing but a racing incident which would have happened a long time before had Hamilton not backed out of a fight with Max on multiple occasions this year (it actually did occur in Imola where Max left absolutely no room).

[Shrieker]

Lewis understeered into Maxes line and missed his apex

Disagreed on all counts.

First of all, what happens after the contact is completely irrelevant. That contact broke Hamilton's rim.

If Hamilton had understeered into Max considerably, it would clearly show when you judge by the inside white line. If you watch the video, there's marginal understeer at most, with less than a car's width between him, and the inside white line, and it pretty much stays the same.

If Max had actually chosen a safer, wider, sweeping line (which is closer to a regular line thru there), we could've seen whether Hamilton was actually trying to pull off a banzai move that would've seen him understeer wide into Max, and you would've been right then. Obviously, that's not what happened.

[turbof1]

There's an almost carbon copy of the incident in Lap 1 of the Sprint.

In that case, Hamilton was on the outside and Verstappen the inside. The squeeze to the inside just before the braking zone was not as severe (both cars are about a car's width further out than in the Race). In both cases the outside driver was slightly ahead.

I think it would be very useful if someone with a lot more technical skill than I did an analysis of the different trajectory / angles / etc for the two lap 1 incidents. The camera angles are almost identical and it would be interesting to understand why the outside car yielded in the Sprint and why the inside car was able to hit the apex in the sprint. It might shed some light on things. The only disappointing thing is that I don't think the onboards from the sprint are available.

If there's telemetry, that might be very instructive too.

It's also absolutely clear that neither driver wanted contact. As Vettel found out at Ferrari, tapping the rear wheel of a rival is just as likely to make you spin as it is them and who, even if they didn't care about anyone else, would take that risk for themself at that speed? Suppose the wheels hit and one car's corner mounted the other car?

This is what we need, analysis, perhaps Jolyon Palmer might provide a good unbiased analysis like he did for the Norris/Perez incidents in Austria. Or someone else. But even still people will stick to their guns whichever way.

Driver61 also makes good content.

[Just_a_fan]

A statement from the FIA read: “The Stewards reviewed video and telemetry evidence. Cars 33 [Verstappen] and 44 [Hamilton] entered turn 9 with Car 33 in the lead and Car 44 slightly behind and on the inside.

“Car 44 was on a line that did not reach the apex of the corner, with room available to the inside. When Car 33 turned into the corner, Car 44 did not avoid contact and the left front of Car 44 contacted the right rear of Car 33. Car 44 is judged predominantly at fault.”

Let's start with this. The Stewards judged Hamilton to be at predominantly fault, but with the added context is he took out his closest rival for the WDC and the race win. The penalty was kind in that it left in the hands of Mercedes the decision of when to take the penalty thus the ability to mitigate it and factor it into their strategy.

A stop go would obligate them to stop in 3 laps and not work on the car.

Predominantly, not solely. So there is a share of blame between the drivers.
And there is no context regarding who the drivers are. Doesn't matter whether it's front runners or back markers. Stewards don't (or at least they shouldn't) decide penalties based on the individuals involved. "Justice is blind" is a common idiom here. There is a bit of difference applied depending on the severity of the incident although that could be argued to be wrong too, but it's the way it is.
And Hamilton didn't "take out" anyone. Taking him out would have been a deliberate attempt to crash in to someone. Obviously neither driver wanted a crash here today.

If that were true that context is not applicable then Schumacher 1997 would have been a much more lenient a censure.

Hamilton did take out Verstappen irregardless of intention.

The difference between Schumacher in 97 and today, is that Schumacher deliberately tried to take out an opponent. Hamilton did not.

And Hamilton didn't take out anyone. To take out another car one needs to have/show intent to have an impact. No one seriously believes that Hamilton wanted to have a crash today, surely?

Schumacher was banned because what he did was a blatant attempt to cheat. It worked in 94 but not in 97.

[Sieper]

Both Hill and even Button, usually not for Max have already spoken out. But look how carefull they have to choose their words. Sad the state these days.

[Just_a_fan]

If he's in hospital, why does it say he's at Silverstone? They took him to a hospital off circuit didn't they?

[Juzh]

What happened today is that Lewis saying that he is not longer opening the door in 50/50 situations. It's up to Max to adjust to it or there will be more crashes. when Lewis is under attack he knows when to give way. Not so with Max. Max does not know when to cede way. Ricciardo found out the hard way in Baku 2018, Vettel found out the hard way in Suzuka 2019, and Ocon found out the hard way while trying to unlap himself (poor fella, he even got shoved afterwards by Max) in Brazil 2018. Max expects other racers to get out of his way even when they are entitled to some space. Maybe he is doing too much ghost racing on the sim. Today that attitude bit him hard.

I dont think it is Hamilton 'saying' anything. It is just that if you are leading or close to the table leader it is more prudent to let it go because some point are better than no points. When you are a full win behind, your strategy has to change its balance point to a more 'go for it' attitude. Its risk v returns, and when there are less points left on offer the options change. Nothing personal between drivers, just the way it is

It's important to lay some ground rules because otherwise Max is just going to bully him off the track for the remainder of the season and you can't just wait and play the long game forever as the Redbull car is only getting faster and the margins for opportunities get smaller as more races unfold. Hamilton has to ensure that going forward Max shows more respect in his race craft. He said it himself in one of his post race interviews.

You mean the same respect hamilton showed albon in brazil and austria and now to max in silverstone? Hamilton got penalties for all three of these so he's entirely and fully responsible for them. If anything hamilton shows the least respect of any driver. Basically almost any time he comes under pressure he puts someone in the gravel or in this case in the wall even.

[Shrieker]

If that were true that context is not applicable then Schumacher 1997 would have been a much more lenient a censure.

Hamilton did take out Verstappen irregardless of intention.

If Michael had retired at Adelaide, and Hill would've carried on to win, you would blame Hill for taking out Schumacher

[the EDGE]

I dont think it is Hamilton 'saying' anything. It is just that if you are leading or close to the table leader it is more prudent to let it go because some point are better than no points. When you are a full win behind, your strategy has to change its balance point to a more 'go for it' attitude. Its risk v returns, and when there are less points left on offer the options change. Nothing personal between drivers, just the way it is

It's important to lay some ground rules because otherwise Max is just going to bully him off the track for the remainder of the season and you can't just wait and play the long game forever as the Redbull car is only getting faster and the margins for opportunities get smaller as more races unfold. Hamilton has to ensure that going forward Max shows more respect in his race craft. He said it himself in one of his post race interviews.

You mean the same respect hamilton showed albon in brazil and austria and now to max in silverstone? Hamilton got penalties for all three of these so he's entirely and fully responsible for them. If anything hamilton shows the least respect of any driver. Basically almost any time he comes under pressure he puts someone in the gravel or in this case in the wall even.

That’s only because of the FIA’s belief that someone must be held responsible and it’s always the other person who comes off worst in these Lewis clashes

IMO, drivers should be allowed to race and if someone comes off worst then so be it. That’s what I tune in to watch… not penalty-fest

[Just_a_fan]

Lewis understeered into Maxes line and missed his apex, there are no two ways about it, look at the rest of the turn, he barely stayed on the track on the exit and even then he was so slow that LEC immediately overtook him, he simply divebombed that corner trying to carry way too much speed - that is why he was given the penalty, which was much too lenient IMO considering what is at stake and his racing experience, he should have not tried that move on Max there period

You don't think that perhaps the impact with Max might have changed his line and caused him to slow down a bit? The impact against the front left tyre will naturally cause the car to steer left a little bit causing him to go off line to the let and allow Charles through.

[politburo]

There's an almost carbon copy of the incident in Lap 1 of the Sprint.

In that case, Hamilton was on the outside and Verstappen the inside. The squeeze to the inside just before the braking zone was not as severe (both cars are about a car's width further out than in the Race). In both cases the outside driver was slightly ahead.

I think it would be very useful if someone with a lot more technical skill than I did an analysis of the different trajectory / angles / etc for the two lap 1 incidents. The camera angles are almost identical and it would be interesting to understand why the outside car yielded in the Sprint and why the inside car was able to hit the apex in the sprint. It might shed some light on things. The only disappointing thing is that I don't think the onboards from the sprint are available.

If there's telemetry, that might be very instructive too.

It's also absolutely clear that neither driver wanted contact. As Vettel found out at Ferrari, tapping the rear wheel of a rival is just as likely to make you spin as it is them and who, even if they didn't care about anyone else, would take that risk for themself at that speed? Suppose the wheels hit and one car's corner mounted the other car?

This is what we need, analysis, perhaps Jolyon Palmer might provide a good unbiased analysis like he did for the Norris/Perez incidents in Austria. Or someone else. But even still people will stick to their guns whichever way.

Driver61 also makes good content.

True

[zibby43]

I dont think it is Hamilton 'saying' anything. It is just that if you are leading or close to the table leader it is more prudent to let it go because some point are better than no points. When you are a full win behind, your strategy has to change its balance point to a more 'go for it' attitude. Its risk v returns, and when there are less points left on offer the options change. Nothing personal between drivers, just the way it is

It's important to lay some ground rules because otherwise Max is just going to bully him off the track for the remainder of the season and you can't just wait and play the long game forever as the Redbull car is only getting faster and the margins for opportunities get smaller as more races unfold. Hamilton has to ensure that going forward Max shows more respect in his race craft. He said it himself in one of his post race interviews.

You mean the same respect hamilton showed albon in brazil and austria and now to max in silverstone? Hamilton got penalties for all three of these so he's entirely and fully responsible for them. If anything hamilton shows the least respect of any driver. Basically almost any time he comes under pressure he puts someone in the gravel or in this case in the wall even.

So less than a year ago, a world champion called Hamilton the cleanest guy he’s ever raced against.

But now, you’re implying the exact opposite. C’mon man. You usually have great content, but you’re better than that.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/57139 ... st-button/

[Just_a_fan]

I dont think it is Hamilton 'saying' anything. It is just that if you are leading or close to the table leader it is more prudent to let it go because some point are better than no points. When you are a full win behind, your strategy has to change its balance point to a more 'go for it' attitude. Its risk v returns, and when there are less points left on offer the options change. Nothing personal between drivers, just the way it is

It's important to lay some ground rules because otherwise Max is just going to bully him off the track for the remainder of the season and you can't just wait and play the long game forever as the Redbull car is only getting faster and the margins for opportunities get smaller as more races unfold. Hamilton has to ensure that going forward Max shows more respect in his race craft. He said it himself in one of his post race interviews.

You mean the same respect hamilton showed albon in brazil and austria and now to max in silverstone? Hamilton got penalties for all three of these so he's entirely and fully responsible for them. If anything hamilton shows the least respect of any driver. Basically almost any time he comes under pressure he puts someone in the gravel or in this case in the wall even.

Hamilton very much held his hands up after Brazil and apologised. Austria was 50/50 really as Albon closed the line thinking he was ahead. Hamilton probably should have expected that. Had Albon not ended up in the gravel, Hamilton wouldn't have had a penalty - the stewards penalise for consequences not actions these days.

As for today, Hamilton is saying to Max - you want to race then let's race, but enough of your bully boy tactics because I'm not playing nice any more. It's up to Max to decide what he does with that going forward. it's about time Max was held to account for his tactics. It was always going to happen one day, it's just that today it's Hamilton getting the blame from the Max/ Rd Bull fans. Could just as easily have been a Leclerc or a Bottas.

[erikejw]

That's a dead man with that kind of crash not too long ago in F1.