Renault R31

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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Fil
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 14:54
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Re: Renault R31

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Formula None wrote:
Fil wrote:Photo I took of Heidfeld's damage in Melbourne. This is at post-race scrutineering.
Great picture, thanks for sharing Fil. Do you have any more close ups? Did you have a press pass or was the car just close to the fence?
Cheers. See my signature for a link to the rest of my photos from the day.
I took my photos on the main straight, after the race when all the cars sat in the pit lane waiting to be rolled in for scrutineering. Was absolutely fascinating!

By the way guys, the Renault sounds incredibly different from any of the other teams. The exhaust overlap when off-throttle was many times more aggressive than any other car (i'll get my vids up onto Youtube soon enough).
A vast majority of the crowd thought there was something wrong with the car. Thanks to this forum, i knew differently.. :wink:
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bot6
bot6
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Renault R31

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As far as "energizing the flow" goes, it's just one word used to describe an infinitely complex concept. Basically, what happens under the car is so complicated the media had to find a word that means nothing to talk about it so they don't actually have to try and explain it.

There are a number of things happening under the car with that exhaust, here is a list of some:
- The hot air has different properties than the cold air (lower viscosity, lower density due to dilatation amongst other things). So feeding hot gases under the car heats up the surrounding air, and the lower viscosity helps with reducing drag, by reducing the boundary layer effect and turbulence under the car. In more simple terms, the air "sticks" less to the bottom of the car and can be "bent" more easily.

- As the hot air cools down along the length of the car, it contracts some, sucking more air under the car as it loses volume.

- The flow of the exhaust is pushing air outwards at the beginning of the floor. This kind of "forces" more of the air under the car to come from the front of the car (the area called the tea-tray) rather than from the sides of the car. Therefore, that air travels a longer path along the floor of the car before reaching the diffuser, resulting in more downforce. That's the "virtual skirt" thing, although "virtual low bargeboard" would maybe be closer to the truth.

There's a bunch of other small effects probably, but I think these are the three main sizable advantages. "energizing" the flow is just a term thrown there to encompass all of this.

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Renault R31

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bot6 wrote:As far as "energizing the flow" goes, it's just one word used to describe an infinitely complex concept. Basically, what happens under the car is so complicated the media had to find a word that means nothing to talk about it so they don't actually have to try and explain it.

There are a number of things happening under the car with that exhaust, here is a list of some:
- The hot air has different properties than the cold air (lower viscosity, lower density due to dilatation amongst other things). So feeding hot gases under the car heats up the surrounding air, and the lower viscosity helps with reducing drag, by reducing the boundary layer effect and turbulence under the car. In more simple terms, the air "sticks" less to the bottom of the car and can be "bent" more easily.

- As the hot air cools down along the length of the car, it contracts some, sucking more air under the car as it loses volume.

- The flow of the exhaust is pushing air outwards at the beginning of the floor. This kind of "forces" more of the air under the car to come from the front of the car (the area called the tea-tray) rather than from the sides of the car. Therefore, that air travels a longer path along the floor of the car before reaching the diffuser, resulting in more downforce. That's the "virtual skirt" thing, although "virtual low bargeboard" would maybe be closer to the truth.

There's a bunch of other small effects probably, but I think these are the three main sizable advantages. "energizing" the flow is just a term thrown there to encompass all of this.
+1, nice and simple explanation of what's going on.

I would add shelly's concept of thicker "virtual" leading edge of the floor - incoming air has to go around high pressure area created by exhaust gases in front of the floor, additionally speeding up the flow.

One of those small, but still significant effects mentioned by bot6 is lower skin friction/drag of heated surfaces - and both sides of the floor are seriously hotter then ambient with this solution.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Renault R31

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There are huge effects on the car, but you need to look outside of the floor. :wink:
For Sure!!

bot6
bot6
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Renault R31

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Care to elaborate on that Ringo?

madly
madly
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010, 23:20

Re: Renault R31

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Lotus Renault GP said R31 had updates at Melbourne. But what it was?
1. Revised exhaust.
2. ?

Are there changed under nose skirts (barge boards?0?

I founded those photos at Fil gallery.

Image

Image

Image

Image

bot6
bot6
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Renault R31

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New sidepod opening? That surely wasn't there at the tests... :lol:

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JotaBass
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 20:35

Re: Renault R31

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Radical cooling solution :lol:

quidam
quidam
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008, 15:35

Re: Renault R31

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Revised FEE :

Image

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Renault R31

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madly wrote:
Image
Resumably if a significant amount of hot exhaust gas was going over the floor, the wiring etc exposed here would have been affected. Or perhaps, as noted elsewhere, the exhaust stream cools very quickly on mixing with the flow around the car.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Renault R31

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the foremost temperature strip seems to not have changed coloration to black(sav the first indicator square whereas the others are all blackened....indicating that no substantial heat was near that strip-even when the car pitted .ok ,sometimes these strips are hard to read from an angle...

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Renault R31

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marcush. wrote:the foremost temperature strip seems to not have changed coloration to black(sav the first indicator square whereas the others are all blackened....indicating that no substantial heat was near that strip-even when the car pitted .ok ,sometimes these strips are hard to read from an angle...
Yes, but the flow without bargeboard and turning vane isn't the same. It would be useful to check pic on the left side of the car if they've places temp stickers there too, and compare. Impact was strong enough to even perhaps slightly change the angle of exhaust.

marekk
marekk
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Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 00:29

Re: Renault R31

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marcush. wrote:the foremost temperature strip seems to not have changed coloration to black(sav the first indicator square whereas the others are all blackened....indicating that no substantial heat was near that strip-even when the car pitted .ok ,sometimes these strips are hard to read from an angle...
What is maximum operating range for those stickers ?

Googling around i've found 260 degree celsius as max value. Way to low to place it direct in exhaust stream so close to exit (could be 500-600 degree or more), so it would mean there is no exhaust flow over the edge, and stickers are only to measure heat transfer rate from the bottom to top of the floor.

bot6
bot6
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 19:30

Re: Renault R31

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Renault just announced an update package for the next race, worth "several tenths" according to Alison.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/45011.html

New front wing and rear wing among other things.

Should make things interesting with McLaren! And if Mercedes and Ferrari show their testing form, this could be a good race weekend.

H.Lyoud
H.Lyoud
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Joined: 17 May 2010, 08:34

Re: Renault R31

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Boullier said that they are expecting 0.5s gain