Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

[HampusA]

Hamilton went for a gap that was always shrinking. He took that risk and came off worst, let it be a lesson to him next time.
F1 aint dodgem's and I think his last 2 Grand Prix should be stark reminders that even if he has a run on someone, you cant squeeze a 2m wide car into a 1.5m gap...unless you bend the space-time continuum.

I get the impression Hamilton cant accept that he has an inferior car and needs to punch above his weight to get results.
Button is proving that by being patient you can go hell for leather when it matters and get the results.
Hamilton is still a faster driver than Button, but he hasnt been the better driver for a couple of races now.

Hamilton's front wheel was just ahead of Button's rear, which is alongside by any sensible definition.

Thats behind. Alongside is front axle alongside front axle.
Putting your nose in a closing gap is asking for trouble.

Agree with every word you said. To me stuff like this seems crystal clear but for most i guess not.

[zeph]

It's people who think it's valid to put your car along side another one and expect them to respect that you're there already vs people who think it's valid to close the door once someone's already beside you.

Except that Hamilton never pulled alongside Button. His right frontwheel made it past Button left rearwheel and that was all she wrote.

Only total abandonment of reason and logic could possibly conceive that as being alongside.

[beelsebob]

There we go calling them alongside when theyre not again.

Rear wheel to front wheel is not alongside. fact.

Im not saying it wasnt a racing incident. Just an incident Ham could have avoided.

Simple definition of along side – does turning towards them cause a collision. If they are in that position, they are along side.

[HampusA]

Bingo, this completely.

Not that some of his super-fans he has on here will ever agree that the sun doesnt shine out of his arse.

To me he's been making rookie mistakes. Its like he's thinking about it too much and forcing issues because the move on button was not needed. He could have clipped his brakes and fallen in line and had another go later. Alonso did just that with a failed move on Vettel.

Racing is about calculated risk. To me i cant see the calculations being made or he would back out.

Agreed, very poor judgement in this race. He tries to much to make up for the inferior car he has. Who can blame him really, with the freak talent the kid has it´s understandable and if Mclaren doesn´t give him a better car it´s sayonara and What´s up Red Bull.

He´s just entering his prime and to waste all that speed on an inferior car is not very good. They have an obligation to Hamilton to give him the best car on the grid.

[timd]

That is not in racing terms alongside. Sorry. Its not. Its considered behind.

I honestly think with no offense that people are mixing up their road driving terms and racing.

To me alongside in racing terms is Front wheels of car behind alongside the middle of car it is overtaking or above. Alongside to me critically means the overtaking driver can see the other car in his peripheral vision or senses and not just mirrors.

[HampusA]

Simple definition of along side – does turning towards them cause a collision. If they are in that position, they are along side.

Lousy definition. He never was alongside. His plan was to go alongside but never made it obviously.

alongside [əˈlɒŋˌsaɪd]
prep
(often foll by of) along the side of; along beside alongside the quay
adv
along the side of some specified thing come alongside

a·long·side (-lôngsd, -lng-)
adv.
Along, near, at, or to the side: stood with a bodyguard alongside; honked and drove up alongside.
prep.
By the side of; side by side with.
Usage Note: Both alongside and alongside of are acceptable as prepositions: The barge lay alongside (or alongside of) the pier.

[beelsebob]

It's people who think it's valid to put your car along side another one and expect them to respect that you're there already vs people who think it's valid to close the door once someone's already beside you.

Except that Hamilton never pulled alongside Button. His right frontwheel made it past Button left rearwheel and that was all she wrote.

Only total abandonment of reason and logic could possibly conceive that as being alongside.

1) The rules don't say anything about how along side you have to be – if a driver pushes you off the track, they pushed you off the track. It doesn't matter if the battle was rear wheel to front wheel or not.
2) I disagree that the gap Hamilton was driving into was disapearing anyway. While ringo is wrong that the normal racing line is never that far over, it's also reasonable to put your car beside someone there, and expect them to use the right hand side of the racing line instead of driving you into a wall. Re Schumacher and Barrichello... well, Schumacher came off the racing line specifically to put the squeeze on. The important thing to note though is that the squeeze happened at exactly the same stage – barrichello's front wheel was next to schumacher's rear wheel. The point being that Barrichello was carrying so much more speed than Schumacher that he was fully along side an instant later. Hamilton too was going significantly faster than button – we just never got to see the bit where he was fully along side into or before T1 because button never saw him.

[HampusA]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

Not even Hamilton denies this so why are you? Afterall, he was the one sitting in the cockpit controlling the car.

[zeph]

He´s just entering his prime and to waste all that speed on an inferior car is not very good. They have an obligation to Hamilton to give him the best car on the grid.

I would not call the McL an inferior car. But a combination of bad strategy, luck and judgement makes things seem worse than they are.

Plus, Vettel and RBR have not put a foot wrong so far. Until his mistake yesterday, that is.

[beelsebob]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

If your wheel is on the grass and paint, not the tarmac trying to avoid being hit by someone, you're being driven off the track. There's another simple definition.

Button didn't do it intentionally, which is I'm sure why he avoided any punishment, but he still drove hamilton off the track.

[HampusA]

I would not call the McL an inferior car. But a combination of bad strategy, luck and judgement makes things seem worse than they are.

Plus, Vettel and RBR have not put a foot wrong so far. Until his mistake yesterday, that is.

All cars below the RBR is inferior.
RBR has pretty much dominated every single Q3 session so far.
Vettel has pretty much dominated every single race so far.
He even dominated this for 99.9% of the laps until the mistake.

The car is so far ahead of the other teams it´s scary. The only chance Mclaren or Ferrari has is taking Vettel down to T1 or hope it rains again and that Vettel doesn´t make a mistake like he did.

[HampusA]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

If your wheel is on the grass and paint, not the tarmac trying to avoid being hit by someone, you're being driven off the track. There's another simple definition.

Button didn't do it intentionally, which is I'm sure why he avoided any punishment, but he still drove hamilton off the track.

that was Hamilton putting his car in a space that never existed. He has brakes and they work splendid. He did however not use them this time like the rest of the guys did in similar situations.

[Shrieker]

There we go calling them alongside when theyre not again.

Rear wheel to front wheel is not alongside. fact.

Rear wheel to front wheel is alongside enough to launch the other car airborne at 300 kph if you decide to squeeze him into a wall.

------------------
After sleeping on it, I think Button really could not see Hamilton. That could've easily ended up in tears for Button too, and he's not stupid you know...

Button was 100% on the racing line. What some people forget is that it´s drizzling down and the corner turns right. So you position yourself almost as far to the left as possible to do the least amount of steering and get as straight of a braking zone as possible.

While I agree about the track positioning, I do not agree that Hamilton was to blame for the incident. He got pushed into the wall, see or not see.

that was Hamilton putting his car in a space that never existed.

While it's (hitting the brakes) is something a driver like say Prost would do (live to fight another day) it's not something a driver like say...umm.. Hamilton would do. He'll never be like that, and I accept that fact.

The fact that he managed to put his front wheels past Button's rears proves there was a gap and he (LH) deserved to be given space rather than getting pushed against the wall.

[beelsebob]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

If your wheel is on the grass and paint, not the tarmac trying to avoid being hit by someone, you're being driven off the track. There's another simple definition.

Button didn't do it intentionally, which is I'm sure why he avoided any punishment, but he still drove hamilton off the track.

that was Hamilton putting his car in a space that never existed. He has brakes and they work splendid. He did however not use them this time like the rest of the guys did in similar situations.

A space that is well known as one of the main overtaking zones on the canadian circuit and has had manoeuvres made in it successfully in the past?

The only difference this time was that Button didn't see him there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPnhzk665o[/youtube]
Montoya drove into a space that didn't exist here... right?

[raymondu999]

All cars below the RBR is inferior.
RBR has pretty much dominated every single Q3 session so far.
Vettel has pretty much dominated every single race so far.
He even dominated this for 99.9% of the laps until the mistake.

The car is so far ahead of the other teams it´s scary. The only chance Mclaren or Ferrari has is taking Vettel down to T1 or hope it rains again and that Vettel doesn´t make a mistake like he did.

I beg to differ. As many people have said, in Spain, Monaco and Canada, the McLaren has been massively quick; and probably even faster than the RB