Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

[MrBlacky]

Any onboard vids from Schumacher during his stint on Inters?

[sAx]

Guess we should let the Canadian GP stewards be the final arbiter of fact:


The stewards said as the two drivers exited Turn 13 there was a legitimate overtaking opportunity for Hamilton as his speed was greater than Jenson Button's

At the moment that Hamilton moved to the left to pass, the stewards reckoned Button looked into his mirror.

The stewards said: "It appears from the position of Hamilton at that moment [and is confirmed by the drivers] that Button was unlikely to have seen Hamilton

"At the point of contact Button had not yet moved as far to the left of the track as he had on the previous lap, or that Schumacher had on that lap.

"The Stewards have concluded that it was reasonable for Hamilton to believe that Button would have seen him and that he could have made the passing manoeuvre. Further, the Stewards have concluded that it is reasonable to believe that Button was not aware of Hamilton's position to his left.

"Therefore, the Stewards decide that this was a 'racing incident' and have taken no further action."

sAx

[timd]

Rear wheel to front wheel is alongside enough to launch the other car airborne at 300 kph if you decide to squeeze him to a wall.

It is close enough for contact yes. The car in front cannot see if you are a inches inside wheel to wheel contact or a a couple feet behind. The driver behind can see exactly. This is whyt he car behind has the libertry to tap his brakes and not get clipped. It was only the slightest clip which then caused both cars to dart to the right which made contact look bigger than it was dont forget.

The diference between this and MSC vs BAR was that MSC was making a blocking move while JB was just on line. I do believe he just could not see him. As does HAM. Which is why HAM was foolish to stick his car there.

[myurr]

All cars below the RBR is inferior.
RBR has pretty much dominated every single Q3 session so far.
Vettel has pretty much dominated every single race so far.
He even dominated this for 99.9% of the laps until the mistake.

The car is so far ahead of the other teams it´s scary. The only chance Mclaren or Ferrari has is taking Vettel down to T1 or hope it rains again and that Vettel doesn´t make a mistake like he did.

I beg to differ. As many people have said, in Spain, Monaco and Canada, the McLaren has been massively quick; and probably even faster than the RB

But only in the race. That Red Bull is so quick in quali is putting massive pressure on Hamilton to make up the difference in the race, whilst Vettel can just cruise to the flag. That, in my view, is the only reason we're seeing mistakes from Hamilton whilst Vettel is comparatively error free. He's just not under the same pressure to make a difference to the outcome of the race.

[Shrieker]

I do believe he just could not see him. As does HAM. Which is why HAM was foolish to stick his car there.

We (and the stewards) reach to the conclusion after hours of deliberation that the incident happened most probably because Jenson couldn't see LH in his mirrors, yet Hamilton who had only a second (or two at best) is foolish?

These guys (and especially LH) know the risks involved. Had the car been one meter ahead Button would've seen LH's front wheel coming up from the left side. So to ask a racer not to put his car where the opportunity exists is well and truly to ask them not to race at all.

"...and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver."

And we all know who Hamilton's idol is

[HampusA]

A space that is well known as one of the main overtaking zones on the canadian circuit and has had manoeuvres made in it successfully in the past?

The only difference this time was that Button didn't see him there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPnhzk665o[/youtube]
Montoya drove into a space that didn't exist here... right?

the only difference here was that it was raining, lines change when it goes from dry to wet. Especially on tracks with lowDF.

The difference in that clip you showed was that Hamilton never got that close. he came to late to the party.

[myurr]

Rear wheel to front wheel is alongside enough to launch the other car airborne at 300 kph if you decide to squeeze him to a wall.

It is close enough for contact yes. The car in front cannot see if you are a inches inside wheel to wheel contact or a a couple feet behind. The driver behind can see exactly. This is whyt he car behind has the libertry to tap his brakes and not get clipped. It was only the slightest clip which then caused both cars to dart to the right which made contact look bigger than it was dont forget.

The diference between this and MSC vs BAR in hungrey was that MSC was making a blocking move while JB was just on line. I do believe he just could not see him. As does HAM. Which is why HAM was foolish to stick his car there.

By your definition there is no alongside - you're either ahead of behind, which is absolutely wrong. There's also no such thing as being on the racing line in terms of the rules and specifically the rule about leaving each other enough room.

If a car is 1cm behind when measured from the front axel, is it behind or alongside? If it's alongside at 1cm, where's the cut off? 20cm, 1 metre? There was approximately 40-50% overlap in this case, which would qualify by most sensible definitions of alongside, and is certainly enough alongside for drivers to have to give each other room.

Take a look at this image:


The overlap was the width of the rear wing, front wing, amount the nose sticks out, plus the width of a front and rear tyre. That's a significant amount of the car being alongside.

Also Button has apologised to Hamilton, showing that he takes some of the blame on his shoulders.

[zeph]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

[myurr]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

Or Hamilton's bashers will 'win' by making snide comments and failing to engage in proper discussion...

[HampusA]

I beg to differ. As many people have said, in Spain, Monaco and Canada, the McLaren has been massively quick; and probably even faster than the RB

Spain: Not fast enough. Could not even use the system designed and put in place to increase the possibility of overtaking.

Monaco Vettel had 60+ something old tires compared to Button running 2 or 3 stints of super softs..
Canada Vettel said he was way to conservative i have no reason to believe him.

I honestly think without DRS and KERS, the differences would be even larger.
As soon as he get ahead he just goes into safe mode, taking care of tires and maintaining the gap to the second place guy.

The mclaren was a dog of a car all weekend here, the cars that did look great was RBR and Ferrari.

[HampusA]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

Or Hamilton's bashers will 'win' by making snide comments and failing to engage in proper discussion...

And people who appreciate all the fastest drivers but isn´t a nuthugger sees things more objectively then any fan or hater ever would do.

[Shrieker]

Some fellow members have pointed out that there are differences between MSC and BAR and this incident. To me, the only difference was that LH and JB are team mates, plus they didn't want to hand Vettel another win. Remove those factors and the stewards would've given the same penalty to JB as they did to MSC despite low visibility. Low visibility isn't exactly reason enough to avoid a penalty when you've ploughed another car into a wall.

[zeph]

The mclaren was a dog of a car all weekend here, the cars that did look great was RBR and Ferrari.

I'm not sure I can agree with that, seeing how Button drove that dog to victory.

[scarlet]

The Lewis/JB incident seemed to be a question of bad luck and bad timing, and neither driver should take blame.

Bad luck because while you could see on TV that JB did look right then left in his mirrors, it was unfortunately just at the point at which Lewis was slipstreaming and aligned directly behind him in a car the same colour as his own, with spray clouding the picture. And so while JB could probably hear that someone was somewhere behind him, he could only do the predictable thing and remain on the racing line. Lewis didn't know this, and on top of that wanted to maximise the slipstream (fair enough). In doing so he had to follow JB across the track and place his car in an angle towards the wall.

Bad timing because at the instant that Lewis had maximised the slipstream and had to commit to a line around Button, moving to the right would have felt like it required a little more turning of the car, which was angled left towards the wall. And so it would have instinctivley felt like that the chances of glancing the into the back on Button (like Alonso on Ham in Malaysia or Webber on Kov last year in Valencia) would have been greater if he went that way. So he went further left, and backing out wasn't enough when he realised JB hadn't seen him.

I haven't read through most of the comments (way too many!) so sorry if this has been brought up already.

[zeph]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

Or Hamilton's bashers will 'win' by making snide comments and failing to engage in proper discussion...

Not sure if that is directed at me, but feel free to point out and quote where I have bashed Hamilton.

I think I have said he is great, awesome and just had two s--t races.