Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ollandos]

https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status ... 1848641536


mp4/29H The mclaren test f1 car for honda by Ron Dennis.......that a serious work from mclaren and honda...for 2015

[ollandos]

xmxmxmx mayde alonso stay in japan after the race .....and start the work on this test car ...........possible.... =D>

[toxicsunsets1]

I have found this on youtube and this was published Dec. 2013.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sz9NG3Z6J8[/youtube]
So I guess Honda was already prepared to enter since Dec of last year. They have bench testing the 2015 engine as shown in the video from 5:38 clip. It shows definitely a V6 engine and sounds like a turbo engine.

[bauc]

Asked specifically about the progress Honda are making with their power pack, Dennis enthused: “It is mindblowing, the engine is a piece of jewellery. They are further ahead than expected. The competiveness of the engine is without question.”

Source: SkySports/F1

[the EDGE]

Honda have released their new video of the 2015 f1 PU that they announced for the 6th

http://world.honda.com/motorsports/video/20141006/




I assume the engine sound towards the end is the new ICE, doesn't give a lot away unfortunately

[Richard]

"The competiveness of the engine is without question.”

Classic Ron Dennis, he's as good as Bernie at saying nothing. It could be mediocre without question for all we know.

ps - That engine doesn't sound like the current engines, we can't hear the turbo or ERS.

[gruntguru]

Yes. The chances of any new engine sounding significantly different are very slim.

[CBeck113]

From 2014 to 2015, as written in the regulations, 8% of the PU will be frozen (cylinder bore spacing, deck height, bank stagger, crank throw, main bearing journal diameter, rod bearing journal diameter, pneumatic valvetrain compressor/pressure regulation devices), and half of the remaining 92% can be modified, or 48% of the total PU. From 2015 to 2016, 23% of the PU will be frozen (everything listed above and a shitload of other stuff), and half of the remaining 77% can be modified: or 38% of the total PU.

My question is this: will Honda be obliged to follow the update schedule exactly as written, which ties updates to calendar years, or will their delayed entry be taken into account? In other words, will they be forced to bypass the initial 48% update entirely, because the 2016 rules only allow for a 38% update, or will they be allowed to make a 48% update on account of it being their first update?

It's a convoluted question; I hope it makes sense.

Since it's such a good question, I've written the DMSB (German Motor Sport Club) for an explanation, since the FiA doesn't answer technical questions themselves - I now feel more confident that we'll get a correct answer

Edit: in the meantime I reread the Sporting regulations for 2015, and found this:

"APPENDIX 4
POWER UNIT HOMOLOGATION
1. An homologated power unit must include all the parts described as “INC” in the “App. 4 Sporting regs.” column of Appendix 2 of the F1 Technical Regulations.
Other than any parts solely associated with power unit installation in different types of car (which have no performance benefit and which may be changed from time to time during the homologation period with the consent of the FIA), any such power unit is one which is identical in every respect to either :
a) A power unit delivered to the FIA no later than 28 February 2014.
b) A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014 which has been modified in accordance with the Annual F1 Power Unit Homologation table in Appendix 4 to the F1 Technical Regulations.
Once homologated in accordance with a) or b) above, and except as permitted by (c) below, no changes may be made to the design or construction of the homologated parts for the duration of the homologation period laid out in Article 28.5 of the F1 Sporting Regulations.
c) A power unit delivered to the FIA after 28 February 2014, or modified and re-delivered to the FIA after that date, which the FIA is satisfied, in its absolute discretion and after full consultation with all other suppliers of power units for the Championship, could fairly and equitably be allowed to compete with other homologated power units.
Such changes will normally only be accepted if they are being proposed for reliability, safety or cost-saving reasons. Any manufacturer wishing to make a change for any of the above reasons must apply in writing to the FIA Technical Department and provide all necessary information including where appropriate, clear evidence of failures. The FIA will study such requests and, if they agree that the changes should be permitted, will circulate the correspondence to all manufacturers for comment. If the FIA receive no comments which cast doubt on their original decision about the proposed modification(s) they will confirm to the manufacturer concerned that they may be carried out.
All such power units should be delivered in such a condition that the seals required under Article 28.4 can be fitted. Power units will be held by the FIA throughout the homologation period."

c) would be Honda, and therefore they will have to follow the update schedule just like all the others. They will have had to nail the design, or hope that their mistakes lead to failures to be able to make updates.

[xpensive]

...
ps - That engine doesn't sound like the current engines, we can't hear the turbo or ERS.

I don't think you should take promo-stuff like this too serious moderator, surely the engine will not even look like that.

Moreover, with McLaren Applied Technologies involved, this will be a semi in-house engine, if allowed they would have been able to further develop the MHPE engine software they were given and this is what Ron Dennis is bitching about.

http://www.mclaren.com/appliedtechnologies/

[Jolle]

The feeling I have with the power units, that the ICE is not the most difficult part of the construction because the revs are very low. What is quite interesting is heat management because they almost can't use fuel to cool the pistons (and Honda got a lot of experience with that in MotoGP)

The size and type of turbo and most of all, the software is more important now. I imagine that Renault and Ferrari are rebuilding their concepts to have a bigger compressor for next year.

If the render of the Honda engine is anything like the real thing, It would make sense why the turbo is so high up, else they would have no space for the big compressor (which means they wouldn't go for a spilt Merc turbo)

[alexx_88]

The key is not the big compressor, but the big turbo and using that to produce electricity.

[mclaren_mircea]

"Insiders say the Japanese turbo hybrid is showing strong performance on the test bed at the Honda factory, and the company has the advantage of knowing the performance of the current Mercedes engine and therefore what it has to aim for with its design." Source: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29604437

[Bredd]

They have the benchmark of a mercedes engine running on different fuel which by all counts isnt as competitive as the petronas in the mercedes engine. They have also had lots of data witheld and who says mercedes will sit still and their engine wont further improve in 2015.

We have had insiders saying the honda engine is poor and overweight and we have had insiders saying its performing well. Ill just wait and keep an open mind

[bhall II]

Since it's such a good question, I've written the DMSB (German Motor Sport Club) for an explanation, since the FiA doesn't answer technical questions themselves - I now feel more confident that we'll get a correct answer

[...]

c) would be Honda, and therefore they will have to follow the update schedule just like all the others. They will have had to nail the design, or hope that their mistakes lead to failures to be able to make updates.

Talk about going above and beyond... =D>

My interpretation leaned in that direction due to the calendar year schedule, but I wasn't sure, because I can't quite understand why a manufacturer would enter the sport with such a razor thin margin for error. So, I wondered if there's some sort of special dispensation available to new entrants.

If they don't get it right, and if Mercedes stands firm against in-season updates, Honda could be in a heap of trouble...

Insiders say the Japanese turbo hybrid is showing strong performance on the test bed at the Honda factory, and the company has the advantage of knowing the performance of the current Mercedes engine and therefore what it has to aim for with its design.

...especially if they're benchmarking their engine to what will be an obsolete design next year.

[strad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMk5Jtd3yS4