2008 Japanese GP

[Conceptual]

From the view of the Massa/Hamilton incident that was broadcast on Speed TV from behind, it looked as if the moment BEFORE that pic was taken that Hamilton closed down, yet again, forcing someone to go off track, or crash.

And since when does anyone have the "right" to fight to un-lap themselves? If Fernando was behind Lewis, and very close, wouldnt Lewis have gotten Blue Flagged? I read the thread, but I simply did not see anything that gave a real reason as to why on the last lap of the race, a car that was lapped and oviously out of contention has the "right" to get back on the lead lap. If I am wrong, then what exactly are the blue flags for?

And flaming Hamilton for the sake of flaming Hamilton is really not my style. In the races that I have watched this year (all of them) I can truly say that abrupt aggressiveness and a complete lack of respect of his competitors race and lives has been his forte.

I have no favorite driver. I have no favorite Team. I like an underdog punching above their weight, but in the end it is all about the fact that these men make a living by bending every law of physics that are in force on the planet Earth, and they ALL live to talk about it after it is over.

If I behaved as Lewis has done most of the year on the track, I would have to quit entirely. Maybe I just don't see winning with "pig f*cker" manouvers as being worthwhile. In my book, what he does is on par with cheating at Russian Roulette. Dead, broken, buried in a barrier or forcced off the track, Hamilton feels good no matter how he wins.

Maybe I just expect a bit more class at this level, and I must say that Fernando Alonso gets my vote for Classiest Driver in 2008. And that is saying alot since I felt he was dead last in that catergory in 2007.

[Belatti]

Conceptual, I would appreciate if you edit some "indecet" language from your last post.

I also would like to remember everybody that this sport is about driving FASTER that the others. Its bloody difficult to do this BETTER than your rival and at the same time behave like a POLITE old lady having 5 o´clock tea with the queen.

If you watch closely the Bourdais-Massa incident, you can see how Seba maintained his position cleanly and Massa turned before he should. This is racing for god sake! Whats wrong with FIA stoopid stewards... ahaaa!!!

There was therefore considerable astonishment at the end of the race when it was announced that Bourdais had been given a penalty. It just did not make sense. There was talk that Sebastien was given a blue light signal in the cockpit, but that should not have happened as he was not being lapped. He was fighting for position. And Massa's lunge left Sebastien with nowhere at all to go. He could not just disappear. How the stewards came up with their bizarre decision was a complete mystery to anyone who has been around racing for a while.

You almost feel sorry of the FIA sometimes. It seems that every time stewards make a decision circumstances intervene and they are perceived to favour Ferrari.

Truly, The Man Upstairs must have it in for the folk in the FIA blazers because this happens all the time!

The perception of the Bourdais incident - inevitably - was that it was just a means of getting Massa another point. The FIA propaganda division always tries to argue that the perception exists only in the minds of a few twisted journalists, but in Japan there was once again widespread irritation, just as there was at Spa a few weeks ago.

On the way back to the hotel we stopped off to buy some sandwiches and mentioned to some fans that Bourdais had lost his position. Without prompting they started muttering the same things one hears all the time in the Media Centre. E-mails come in all the time saying the same thing.

The whole world sees it - whether it is true or not.

It probably did not help that later in the race Massa went screaming down the inside of Mark Webber on the pit straight, put all four wheels over the white line and indeed drove over a red and white hatched box (where even angels fear to tread). There was an investigation but (astonishingly) it was into whether Webber had moved more than he was supposed to move. The question of whether Massa broke the rules did not even come into it.

"I saw a space down the inside and went for it," said Massa. "He moved over on me a little bit towards the wall which might have looked a bit scary but it was not like that from the cockpit."

http://www.grandprix.com/race/r801racereport.html

So Manchild was right!

I started suspecting this since the Belgian GP (Nonsense, I suspected way before ) and now I confirm it!

I really wish Hamilton accepts that he is NO BETTER than Senna so he deserves to win his championship and leaves Massa, maFIA and Ferrari with nothing

[RH1300S]

And since when does anyone have the "right" to fight to un-lap themselves? If Fernando was behind Lewis, and very close, wouldnt Lewis have gotten Blue Flagged? I read the thread, but I simply did not see anything that gave a real reason as to why on the last lap of the race, a car that was lapped and oviously out of contention has the "right" to get back on the lead lap. If I am wrong, then what exactly are the blue flags for?

There is nothing wrong with un-lapping yourself - it's not arrogant or aggressive - it is VERY SENSIBLE. First, the leader won't resist (no need). You never know - if any other cars ahead of you on the road have any trouble (breakdown, accident - whatever) - you have a chance of picking up some places..............

To follow Alonso home would have ended LH's race on that same lap.

[Rob W]

News just in... the stewards ruling contradicted the advice given by race director Charlie Whiting when they penalised Bourdais.

FIA race director Charlie Whiting had briefed them (the teams) in Singapore and again in Fuji that the car exiting the pits has right of way.'

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954, ... 91,00.html

R

[shotzski]

News just in... the stewards ruling contradicted the advice given by race director Charlie Whiting when they penalised Bourdais.

So will the FIA give the points back to Bourdais? I don't think so. Kimi is no longer in contention for the championship is he not?

[Sawtooth-spike]

So what is the point of Charlie being there? We have 2 clear instances where his Opinion has counted for nothing!

Last Season was Spoiled by the Mclaren Thing, And this Year is being spoiled by the stewards. I have a few friends and family members who has stopped watching F1 because of all this BS.

[axle]

News just in... the stewards ruling contradicted the advice given by race director Charlie Whiting when they penalised Bourdais.

So will the FIA give the points back to Bourdais? I don't think so. Kimi is no longer in contention for the championship is he not?

They can't as you can't appeal a drive through...so that leaves us with the question of why they couldn't make the decision in the race after all they have 16 laps to decide and then why is Charlie, the only professional, ignored, again.

[shotzski]

shotzski wrote:
News just in... the stewards ruling contradicted the advice given by race director Charlie Whiting when they penalised Bourdais.

So will the FIA give the points back to Bourdais? I don't think so. Kimi is no longer in contention for the championship is he not?


They can't as you can't appeal a drive through...so that leaves us with the question of why they couldn't make the decision in the race after all they have 16 laps to decide and then why is Charlie, the only professional, ignored, again.

Oh man. They should've just kept quiet. They are just making things worse, than it already is. Poor Bourdais.

[shotzski]

Guys, what do you think Fernando really mean about this:

Fernando Alonso has vowed to help Felipe Massa beat his former McLaren team-mate Lewis Hamilton to this year's World title.

Last season Alonso, then driving for McLaren, was the one involved in a title battle with Hamilton, which led to a great deal of rivalry and animosity within the team and Alonso's subsequent departure after just one year.

This year, though, it's Massa whose locked in the title race with Hamilton, with Alonso vowing to do all he can to help the Ferrari driver beat his former team-mate.

"Yes, no doubt, if I can help, I will help Massa," Alonso told AS newspaper.

Will they gang up on Lewis, or is the Media adding up too much? If it's the former, then it's disturbing; you have to ask: What's in it for Alonso? Revenge?

[Rob W]

Guys, what do you think Fernando really mean about this:

I think they overstate almost every headline they ever write compared to what was actually said by the person. To say he 'vows' is stretching it a bit. Maybe the question was: "when you move to Ferrari will you be supportive of your team-mate?" and the reply was: "Yes, no doubt, if I can help, I will help Massa"..

This is the level of journalism I wouldn't put past most of the muppets out there.

It's no secret there is no love lost between Alonso and Hamilton, but I guarantee he spends 99.99% of his time worrying about what he is doing to earn wins and not what everyone else is up to.

R

[ben_watkins]

Freedom_Honda and Rob W.. I totally agree with your points of view over the last few pages...

[freedom_honda]

i was just thinking about what would FIA gain by penalising Bourdais. and i came up with a theory - Money.
Formula One is all about money nowadays right?
by penalising Massa they made the whole championship much more closer. the gap between Hamilton and Massa is only 5 points. and the whole chaos in Japan bring Kubica into the Championship contention as well. (mathematically speaking)
moreover, with Renault's recent improvements, Alonso is now be able to challenge for the win. so the remaining races is now changed into a five way competition (if you include Kimi as well. he is def fast enough to win a race).
we all know how many extra audiences that the three way battle between Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi brought to Formula One. and more audiences means more money. in formula one, money = good.

and the whole stewards and penalty thing brought formula one A LOT of publicity.
brings even more attention to the sport. which cant be bad for a sport that spends millions of dollars in advertising.

just a theory. feel free to join the debate.
gotta love conspiracy theory.

[woohoo]

Last year, Kubica tried to pass Hamilton, and hit him, they both spun off and rejoined. Kubica got a drive through penalty.
Yesterday, Hamilton forced Raikonnen off, and got a drive though.
Massa hit and spun Hamilton, and got a drive though.
Bourdais hit and spun Massa, and got a drive though.

Seems like logic. no ?

But on the whole I would rather have the stewards hand out black-white flags instead of giving drive though penalties.

[Conceptual]

Last year, Kubica tried to pass Hamilton, and hit him, they both spun off and rejoined. Kubica got a drive through penalty.
Yesterday, Hamilton forced Raikonnen off, and got a drive though.
Massa hit and spun Hamilton, and got a drive though.
Bourdais hit and spun Massa, and got a drive though.

Seems like logic. no ?

But on the whole I would rather have the stewards hand out black-white flags instead of giving drive though penalties.

Massa hit Bourdais and spun himself. Did you watch the replay?

[Conceptual]

And since when does anyone have the "right" to fight to un-lap themselves? If Fernando was behind Lewis, and very close, wouldnt Lewis have gotten Blue Flagged? I read the thread, but I simply did not see anything that gave a real reason as to why on the last lap of the race, a car that was lapped and oviously out of contention has the "right" to get back on the lead lap. If I am wrong, then what exactly are the blue flags for?

There is nothing wrong with un-lapping yourself - it's not arrogant or aggressive - it is VERY SENSIBLE. First, the leader won't resist (no need). You never know - if any other cars ahead of you on the road have any trouble (breakdown, accident - whatever) - you have a chance of picking up some places..............

To follow Alonso home would have ended LH's race on that same lap.

So, you are saying that if you get blue flagged to allow the leader through on the last lap, it is ok to ignore it? Or allow the leader to pass, and then try to re-overtake?

That makes ZERO sense in any type of logic. In the end Lewis was lap traffic, not fighting for position, and it really came across as nothing but jealousy.

I'm over this race already, and looking forward to China. Maybe Lewis will take himself out there AGAIN, and the rest of the field won't have to deal with him at all.