Turkey GP 2009 - Istanbul Park

[ISLAMATRON]

vasia, Piquet had issues with the brake ducts, which ended leaving him without brakes. And in case you wonder, the brake issues started as soon as the session started.

On the other hand, I really expected Alonso to have another 10 kilos of fuel. His qualifying pace on q3 really disappointed me once the fuel was known.

He may have actually done a good job putting that(bad) car in 8th... and you never know, Flav might press the crash button on NP's car right after Alonso pits like they did in Singapore.

[Miguel]

vasia, Piquet had issues with the brake ducts, which ended leaving him without brakes. And in case you wonder, the brake issues started as soon as the session started.

On the other hand, I really expected Alonso to have another 10 kilos of fuel. His qualifying pace on q3 really disappointed me once the fuel was known.

He may have actually done a good job putting that(bad) car in 8th... and you never know, Flav might press the crash button on NP's car right after Alonso pits like they did in Singapore.

That's not really workable. The R28 was almost a match of the Ferrari and McLaren that day on Singapore, and only the fuel pump failure caused Alonso to start so far back. Today, the R29 was easily 0.5s off the Brawn/RBR pace. Who knows, a longish safety car after the first lap with the soft tires may mean he has a shot for the points, but I have the feeling they put too little fuel.

BTW: La sexta commentators were talking about Bourdais being fired and substituted by Piquet himself, while Grosjean would take Nelsinho's seat. Yes, I know, I wouldn't put Piquet on the Toro Rosso either.

[ESPImperium]

BTW: La sexta commentators were talking about Bourdais being fired and substituted by Piquet himself, while Grosjean would take Nelsinho's seat. Yes, I know, I wouldn't put Piquet on the Toro Rosso either.

I think that Bourdais is getting frustrated in F1, and feel that he is gonna announce that he is gonna be in ALMS. I feel that Piquet is gonna be replaced by Grosjean after this race. Meaning that Piquet will get a contract at STR till the end of the season, then i dont know what.

But after his recent comments, i feel that Buemi may not want him in the team, so Hartley may get the drive here. I think theres gonna be a bit of a driver re-shuffle soon.

[hulmerist]

It would be absurd for hamilton to start the race on soft option tires with 91.5kg of fuel on board, especially since the track will be slippery early on in the race... under those conditions the softs might last him all of 8 laps.

I expect everyone to start on the Prime tires except for maybe Vettle, Alonso & possibly Truili.

but button seems to be able to make the options work for him better than anyone else can, his tyre management is better than anyone else as seen in monaco, his drop off in pace was minimal compared to rubens and vettel especially if i remember

he will start on the options too with a view to getting the jump on vettel into turn 1 or 12 on the first lap, vettel has to get away, which he probably won't do given the brawns pace on longer runs, button should jump him on the first stops if not on the first lap

seems like mclaren got their strategy mixed up between monaco and instanbul, a circuit where you can overtake, surely the added weight on the car is not going to do their handling problem any favours...

[ISLAMATRON]

Can some one correct this blurb from F1.com

Qualifying analysis - Brawn’s sternest challenge yet

There were mixed opinions on whether the hard Bridgestone prime tyre or the softer option was the answer for qualifying. Both polesitter Vettel and front-row man Button used the former, whereas Barrichello in third relied on the primes and thought they worked very well. In the fuel stakes, Vettel weighed in at 649.5 kg which put Button’s 655.5, Barrichello’s 652.5 and Webber’s 656 into decent perspective. Alonso was lightest of the top ten at 644.5…

according to them the entire top three qualed on primes... but I think they meant the front row were on the options

but button seems to be able to make the options work for him better than anyone else can, his tyre management is better than anyone else as seen in monaco, his drop off in pace was minimal compared to rubens and vettel especially if i remember

he will start on the options too with a view to getting the jump on vettel into turn 1 or 12 on the first lap, vettel has to get away, which he probably won't do given the brawns pace on longer runs, button should jump him on the first stops if not on the first lap

seems like mclaren got their strategy mixed up between monaco and instanbul, a circuit where you can overtake, surely the added weight on the car is not going to do their handling problem any favours...

Everyone has been struggling with the options, and there is more than 1 way to pass... Button can start on the primes and wait till Vettle(who has 2-3 laps less fuel) pits and throw in some fast laps before he pits to jump him thru the pit stop sequence. Vettle who is stopping early anyway cant afford to short pit, and any SC in the first 10 laps or so would destroy his race. The longer 1st stint on the primes is the best strategy, especially if you have a great car under you the BGP.

Buttons ability to save the tires in Monco could be based on the fact that he was the only car in clean air... at least if you ask Rubans. Kimi ran the options 10 laps longer(and with laps more fuel onboard) than Button in Monaco and put up impressive laps doing it, of coarse he did it at the end of the race, when you are supposed to run the options because they last longer due to the rubber build up.

[hulmerist]

the top five at least will start on options, it is an advantage off the line, position out of the first corner is everything, they can't afford to have their race compromised

they will make the tyres work

[jon-mullen]

He may have actually done a good job putting that(bad) car in 8th... and you never know, Flav might press the crash button on NP's car right after Alonso pits like they did in Singapore.

I think Piquet needs a button for that about as badly as Nakajima's car needs a "rear end someone and destroy front wing" button and Massa needs a "throw tantrum" button.

EDIT:

Just saw this quote, do they know we know the post-quali weights now or have they just gotten so used to playing politics...?

Pat Symonds, Executive Director of Engineering: “Nelson dropped out of qualifying after loosing a brake duct which overheated his brakes and caused him to spin. We had hoped for a slightly higher position for Fernando after second qualifying but bearing in mind our fuel load we are not in a bad position for the race.”

[vasia]

They've got Hamilton fueled really heavy this time, must've learned their lesson after starting him P19 at 645 kg in Monaco.

I think this is another mistake. He's struggling with the car much more here than in Monaco. Monaco suited the MP4-24 more than Instanbul does. It would have made sense to run a heavy fuel load in Monaco. Hamilton is also starting on the dirty side. I really don't think heavy fuel will help him much here, unless lots of safety cars come out.

vasia, Piquet had issues with the brake ducts, which ended leaving him without brakes. And in case you wonder, the brake issues started as soon as the session started.

On the other hand, I really expected Alonso to have another 10 kilos of fuel. His qualifying pace on q3 really disappointed me once the fuel was known.

I know that, but my point still stands that Renault was dissapointing and that Alonso did nothing exceptional by getting that car to 8th place being lightly fueled like that. Not just Piquet, but Alonso as well was sliding around during qualifying. The R29 does not look as planted as the top cars. The RB5 and TF109 both look immense in the high speed corners, as does the Brawn car.

It would be absurd for hamilton to start the race on soft option tires with 91.5kg of fuel on board, especially since the track will be slippery early on in the race... under those conditions the softs might last him all of 8 laps.

I expect everyone to start on the Prime tires except for maybe Vettle, Alonso & possibly Truili.

The softs were working well for Toyota even on the longer runs. Toyota have no complaints about the softs, and regardless of what tires Glock starts on, he will likely have to do a long stint on the softs. I imagine Brawn has no real issues with the softs as well.

[jddh1]

Fox is showing the race at 3pm here in the states, "only" seven hours after the live race start. I guess the "we-buy-gold" infomertials have priority at 8am.

Anybody know of a web feed just for this time? I can't miss the live race.

[jon-mullen]

+1! Please PM me if you know where to watch it live (I don't care what language or who comments).

This makes no sense. FOX, who would otherwise be showing NASCAR live, agrees to show F1, but not live, and not not opposite NASCAR on TNT. Meanwhile SpeedTV is left to show Stacy David's Gearz, then NASCAR pre-race, then their please-tune-to-FOX-I-mean-TNT-this-time filler garbage? Gimme a break!

[wrcsti]

+1 on live feed and time please!

[sunny1304]

Weights are up:

The weights of the cars at the start of the 2009 Turkish Grand Prix will be:
Number Car Driver Weight [kg]
01 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 696.5*
02 McLaren Mercedes Heikki Kovalainen 665.0*
03 Ferrari Felipe Massa 654.0
04 Ferrari Kimi Räikkönen 658.0
05 BMW Sauber Robert Kubica 664.0
06 BMW Sauber Nick Heidfeld 681.5*
07 Renault Fernando Alonso 644.5
08 Renault Nelson Piquet 689.6*
09 Toyota Jarno Trulli 652.0
10 Toyota Timo Glock 689.0*
11 STR Ferrari Sébastien Bourdais 701.0*
12 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 686.5*
14 RBR Renault Mark Webber 656.0
15 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 649.5
16 Williams Toyota Nico Rosberg 660.0
17 Williams Toyota Kazuki Nakajima 680.4*
20 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 668.5*
21 Force India Mercedes Giancarlo Fisichella 688.5*
22 Brawn Mercedes Jenson Button 655.5
23 Brawn Mercedes Rubens Barrichello 652.5

*declared weight

1 correction : 8 - Fernando Alonso / Renault = 664.5kg *

SORRY HERE http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/06/ ... r-on-grid/

ALONSO'S WEIGHT IS 664.5....SO I THOGHT YOU MISTAKE....SORRY AGAIN.

[vasia]

There is conflicting media information that the clean side of the grid is positions 2,4 etc. I was under the impression the clean side is positions 1,3 etc.

Weights are up:

The weights of the cars at the start of the 2009 Turkish Grand Prix will be:
Number Car Driver Weight [kg]
01 McLaren Mercedes Lewis Hamilton 696.5*
02 McLaren Mercedes Heikki Kovalainen 665.0*
03 Ferrari Felipe Massa 654.0
04 Ferrari Kimi Räikkönen 658.0
05 BMW Sauber Robert Kubica 664.0
06 BMW Sauber Nick Heidfeld 681.5*
07 Renault Fernando Alonso 644.5
08 Renault Nelson Piquet 689.6*
09 Toyota Jarno Trulli 652.0
10 Toyota Timo Glock 689.0*
11 STR Ferrari Sébastien Bourdais 701.0*
12 STR Ferrari Sébastien Buemi 686.5*
14 RBR Renault Mark Webber 656.0
15 RBR Renault Sebastian Vettel 649.5
16 Williams Toyota Nico Rosberg 660.0
17 Williams Toyota Kazuki Nakajima 680.4*
20 Force India Mercedes Adrian Sutil 668.5*
21 Force India Mercedes Giancarlo Fisichella 688.5*
22 Brawn Mercedes Jenson Button 655.5
23 Brawn Mercedes Rubens Barrichello 652.5

*declared weight

1 correction : 8 - Fernando Alonso / Renault = 664.5kg *

SORRY HERE http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/06/ ... r-on-grid/

ALONSO'S WEIGHT IS 664.5....SO I THOGHT YOU MISTAKE....SORRY AGAIN.

How do we know this is correct?

Formula1.com as of right now still lists Alonso's weight at 644.5.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/6/9460.html

Also, the FIA website officially lists Alonso's weight at 644.5.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1 ... eights.pdf

At this point I will trust the FIA and F1.com sites over gpupdate. I wonder where gpupdate got their number, wouldn't be the first time they made a mistake.

[sunny1304]

i understood that gpupdate.net made the mistake.........and also i said sorry.

[axle]

Have to say Kimi stuck it to Massa on Massa's best track with more fuel on board. Good on Kimi. I'm enjoying the battle between those two (as long as it's not at the front ).

I don't get Williams' insistance on always having more fuel on board than most of the others in Q3...then need less to stay with the front and guarentee good track position by keeping up with the leaders. Yes they have to pit earlier, but the most time/track position is made in the first stint. I'd like to see them get a bit more aggressive so they get the results the FW31 is capble of. Having said that they have dropped a 10th this weekend compared to the leaders so have just done well to make Q3. I'm do feel that they could do with a PdlR in the sister car for setup work...Kazuki is just a millstone to the team, he just can't find the last few (3-4) 10th's to make him a winner.