Metric vs Imperial units

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strad
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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I'm amazed that someone on a technical forum is annoyed at the use of a specialist technical term.
I'm amazed this is still going. :shock:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

rjsa
rjsa
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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xpensive wrote:Engländer? Blasphemy, nothing less, marcush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Petter_Johansson

No, I have tried the same on my side, but where 760.643 and 86.650 mm is coming from is a complete mystery.
It is called the "Chave Inglesa" or english wrench here in BR also.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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tok-tokkie wrote:From a thread of a March/April:
I agree with newbie and mistery steve.

Downforce=0.5*(air density)*(speed)^2*(reference area)*Cl

Usually you don't work with Cl, but with [reference area*Cl], namely SCl.
SCl has the dimension of surface, i.e. m^2 in SI; typical values are between 2 and 5.

1 point corresponds to SCl=0.01m^2:
if your car improves from SCl=4 to SCl=4.30 it has gained 30 points of downforce.

Working with points is easier because you work with numbers like 5, 7, 30 instead of 0.05, 0.07, 0.30.

If in the formula for downforce you substitute air density=1.22 kg/m^3 and take into account dividing by 3.6^2 (conversion for speed from m/s to kph) and by 9.81 (conversion from N to kg) you get

Downforce=0.0048*(speed in kph)^2*SCl

and finally with 1 point corresponding to SCl=0.01m^2

1 point [kg] = 0.000048*(speed [kph])^2
Thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8286&view=previous
Well done finding that. It suggests to me that 'point' is a technical term as it is a derived unit using SI. Just like Newton is a derived unit under the SI system.

Puts it to bed as far as I'm concerned...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Talking of adjustable spanners (not 'wrench' please; if we're going to use English to communicate then let's use English, not USish :wink: ), I'm reminded of a story (probably apocryphal) of apprentices being sent to the storeroom for an adjustable spanner. "And make sure you get an imperial one - none of that metric rubbish". Apparently anyone who didn't figure it out before they got to the storeroom was unlikely to be kept on the books for very long :lol:

As I say, probably apocryphal but makes me smile every time.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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So the point of downforce thing was about percentage, my, who could have guessed?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Pup
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Perdozenage.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Here in BlueYellow country, where civilization actually bagan all those years ago when we got tired of raping nuns and killing monks, believe it or not, we still sometimes refer to a "gross", any idea what that might be Pup?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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strad
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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144??? thats what it is here
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Indeed strad, twelve dozens, perhaps we all had six fingers once, not only so in the appalachians?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Pup
Pup
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Some people are still born with six fingers, though its been considered a vestigial trait since the metric system was introduced. My great aunt was six fingered and was a fine fiddle player. She had six toes on her left foot, too, though one of them was later bitten off in a bar fight.

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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The basis of numbers based on dozens, like 360 (degrees), is because for many centuries, engineers did not have algorithms for division.

The way you do divisions was popularized by Al-Juarizmi (in spanish, or al-Khwārizmī in imperial units), based on the system devised by Indian mathematicians (let's bless them!). He introduced people to zero and arabic numbers. Since then, dividing is easy.

However, before Mr. Juarizmi, can you imagine how hard was to divide CCXXV by XVI?

So, when you use a number like 360 as a "base" you can divide it by 1 (good joke!), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 24, 30, 36, 40, 45, 60, 72, 90 and 180 and you get an integer.

Same goes with 12: it's divisible by 1 (ha, ha), 2, 3, 4, 6, 8 ("almost" an integer: 1.5) and 9 (almost integer, again: 1 1/3). By "almost" I mean you can "divide in your head".

No people with 6 fingers was involved in the system that "tries" to use numbers based on multiples of 12, except, perhaps, some viking navigators and their strayed dogs (ha, ha, how funny I am!).

The idea of using 16, like in 1/16 of an inch, is not equally good: you cannot do an integer division by 3 or 5. I think that the "most divisible" (integer results, of course) number in the first few hundreds is 360, but I'm not sure. In the first twenty numbers, 12 is the king of integer division, of course.

Anyway, as I'm not a mod anymore (altough by some mistake I still have the rights) I have to ask nicely and rudely (phew, at last, free at last!): any possibility of staying on thread, instead of writing this mountain of stupid posts? You, mates, are missed elsewhere.

Of course, this thread is hopelessly uninteresting: why would someone use imperial units? Let me guess: because his nation is not interested in exports, only in accumulating debt (even in you live in Burma or Liberia, two of the three nations that obstinately, hardheadedly and bordering imbecility, still use the imperial system). I apologize to any Burmese or Liberian in the forum: it's your government the one at fault, not your nation.

For Just a fan: there is such thing as a metric adjustable spanner (aka adjustable wrench: we don't communicate in english, we comunicate, if we do so, in international english, which means we talk as we can). Anyway, dear JAF, check what a milli-grip is.

Finally, there is no such thing as a metric system in use nowadays: the metric system was overrode by the Système internationale d'unités (SI).

This happened in 1960, engineers. Don't you, people, read? It's very useful to do so.

So: http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~joss ... t-A4-1.pdf

Read the first article, by Mr. Petley, if you want to get a grip of why SI and how it will evolve.

In his own words: "During its nearly forty years of use, the SI has been modified as science and technology have advanced. To the great satisfaction of most physicists, the artefact standards are being replaced by units and standards that are based on atomic and quantum phenomena. The process seems likely to continue for the next few decades, reflecting the fact that nature does not provide a unique set of natural units.

Please, don't bother answering this post: I'm going to deep freeze myself and I plan to wake up in 200 years.
Ciro

lotus7
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Just_a_fan wrote:Talking of adjustable spanners (not 'wrench' please; if we're going to use English to communicate then let's use English, not USish :wink: ), I'm reminded of a story (probably apocryphal) of apprentices being sent to the storeroom for an adjustable spanner. "And make sure you get an imperial one - none of that metric rubbish". Apparently anyone who didn't figure it out before they got to the storeroom was unlikely to be kept on the books for very long :lol:

As I say, probably apocryphal but makes me smile every time.
Here in the ex-colony , we call them shifting spanners .
And we do get them metric/imperial - my son ( who is a racing engineer/mechanic) bought one very recently , on the sides of the jaw it has linear scales , one side metric , the other side imperial . I never had a reason to know what size to adjust them , as long as they areadjusted to fit the bolt or nut snugly

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Ciro Pabon wrote:mountain of stupid posts


+1
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

CMSMJ1
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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This is a great thread. Very interesting to see how the various nationallities on this great forum think.

As an englishman...I think of things in feet and inches..I drink pints of mile and even though my milk comes in metrically marked bottles...I am getting a couple of pints of milk

I am weighed in stones and pounds.

However, I ride a bike that has km clocks so I can easily work in KM or miles for my travelling.

My tools are mainly metric although I do have a small stash of imperial tools that I do not use (and apart from a 1/2 inch socket for my spark plugs) I expect I never will.

Spanners are spanners..wrench is a verb

I find it fascinating that my continental friends just do not have an inbuilt idea if imperial like I have. We do not get taught any imperial in schools and never did when I was there...you just know it.

The big one for me....pints of beer...so much more satisfaction in that 68 extra ml over a half litre..

I am the, obviously modest, perfect balance between the two camps - easy about either system and prefer metric for my spannering and imperial for my personal measurements.

@ Ciro - you, Sir, should be published! Posting excellence as usual.
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Metric vs Imperial units

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Ciro Pabón wrote: ...
Finally, there is no such thing as a metric system in use nowadays: the metric system was overrode by the Système internationale d'unités (SI).

This happened in 1960, engineers. Don't you, people, read? It's very useful to do so.
...
This is obviously true, but as a homage to to the contribution by our noble scientists and inventors, SI is also refered to as "Swedish Ingenuity", that's what we were tought at scool anyway. My US-friends calls it Stupid International and tells me that the people behind ISO 9000 must have had that many beers.

Anyway, older Swedish enginers, even older than me that is, pretty much uses kilo the same way Americans uses pound,
it can be either mass, force, pressure or torque, you just have to know.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"