2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[basti313]

Oscar will definately become better

Well Fuel adjusted in 2007

Wow, that is top notch Yin Yang.

If Norris is fully ahead, is he now a defender because he passed on the straight? If not why not?

What a Twister. Max is overtaking Lando to give it the right plot. Love it

[Darth-Piekus]

One thing I dont understand is why is it totally okay to divebomb in defense and sent both participants off the track just to keep your position at all costs? By what moral does this considered fair driving that is not punishable?

If for example there is a new driver that drives exactly like Max Verstappen and he is on Mclaren. Then that driver decides to defend as many times as he wants abusing the rule against Max Verstappen will people have the same energy to call it fair racing just like they are calling it now or will they demand that driver's head on a platter? Because have in mind that eventually there will be a time when Max will be on the receiving end of his driving by a similar driver in the future.

[Ben1980]

I think he was fully ahead though, all of his car was in front of Verstappen's before the braking zone. Feel free to correct me, but this is my view and what I can see. So it is an interesting one. Totally fine with how they looked at it, but I feel like the idea of what completes an overtake is part of the grey area, I'd dearly love for someone to show me where this is defined. If it isn't defined then I have to say, I would be very baffled to understand a sport that values overtaking as much as anything else, but hasn't defined what an overtake is and what the rules are that define an overtake.

To be fair, I didn't look at the positions before the straight and I was basing it on memory. From looking at the footage it does look like Norris had almost cleared Verstappen fully or even cleared him.

You are making a very valid point. If Norris is fully ahead, is he now a defender because he passed on the straight? If not why not?

I think that we can't really find a black and white rule for that as it is always under intepretation. One could say that Verstappen took a inside line which was slower over the straight but better for the corner, so he didn't really completely lose the position (as proved).


The simplest solution to that is to remove the difference between treatment of the attacking and defending drivers. If in both situations, inside line, outside line, ahead at apex or behind you have to leave the space, all of this is unimportant (when overtake is complete). The rule is super clear, if there is overlap you must leave the space. We will get better overtaking.

They made massive aero changes (and will do so again) but are unwilling to change the rule that would allow more side by side action? Who is leading this sport.

He was 100% ahead, but people say he hadn't completed it. Which is irrelevant surely?

If you are mm ahead at the apex it seems to be the be all and end all, but if ahead before the corner it seems irrelevant.

If you are ahead by 1mm at the finish line you are ahead.

But, the rules seem muddled, at best.

It's an awful corner though.

[Darth-Piekus]

And this is the question Ben. At some point there will be another driver like Max but this time will be opposite of Max to an opponent team to Red Bull. Eventually that driver will do the same on Max to what Max does because they allowed this kind of driving as normal. So kids on the lower categories will be learning that kind of driving. When that happens are people still gonna keep that same energy of fair and hard driving or will they ask that driver's head on a platter?

[mwillems]

I think he was fully ahead though, all of his car was in front of Verstappen's before the braking zone. Feel free to correct me, but this is my view and what I can see. So it is an interesting one. Totally fine with how they looked at it, but I feel like the idea of what completes an overtake is part of the grey area, I'd dearly love for someone to show me where this is defined. If it isn't defined then I have to say, I would be very baffled to understand a sport that values overtaking as much as anything else, but hasn't defined what an overtake is and what the rules are that define an overtake.

To be fair, I didn't look at the positions before the straight and I was basing it on memory. From looking at the footage it does look like Norris had almost cleared Verstappen fully or even cleared him.

You are making a very valid point. If Norris is fully ahead, is he now a defender because he passed on the straight? If not why not?

I think that we can't really find a black and white rule for that as it is always under intepretation. One could say that Verstappen took a inside line which was slower over the straight but better for the corner, so he didn't really completely lose the position (as proved).


The simplest solution to that is to remove the difference between treatment of the attacking and defending drivers. If in both situations, inside line, outside line, ahead at apex or behind you have to leave the space, all of this is unimportant (when overtake is complete). The rule is super clear, if there is overlap you must leave the space. We will get better overtaking.

They made massive aero changes (and will do so again) but are unwilling to change the rule that would allow more side by side action? Who is leading this sport.

The point of the need for certain types of overlap though, are based on the prevention of divebombing and other manoeuvres with the potential to cause incidents. You can't be expected to make space at the very last second if someone is crazy with their brakes. And the other consideration is the ability for the stewards to make an accurate judgement.

I think that cameras on the nose and at the rear to demonstrate the position of any car either side of another car, plus braking telemetry. Or easier than that, cameras directly above all the braking zones who's timings are linked to the telemetry would fulfil the desire to see who is attacking or who is defending.

In this instance, I do think Norris was slightly ahead, but it is very close and the call is tight. But that is why I wonder what constitutes an overtake. Last year Hamilton was penalised at Singapore for using run off on the second corner after he'd overtaken Norris AND had hit the apex on the first corner after overtaking Norris. So if that isn't classed as a complete overtake and he is still gaining a place by going off track, then this certainly was.

As I say, this idea of what completes an overtake is something I'd love to understand more about.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Brundle has always said that after 3 years, that thats basically the drivers level.
So next year he gunna need to find 2 tenths to push Norris

You guys remember when Norris took a beating from Sainz the first two years? I wouldn't be concerned about Piastri when he has performed at this level against a prime Norris. I still expect Piastri to give Norris a hard time next year because he has more balls than Norris when it comes down to wheel-to-wheel fighting and race starts. Like you said, Piastri is lacking raw speed compare to Norris.

Took a beating seems to be a strong term, especially in 2020.

When it was 8 points and 1 qualifying result in it. Though the only podium went to Lando.

In a battle with soneone going to Ferrari and with a lot more experience I think Lando really stood out that year.

Well, with Hamilton leaving for Ferrari, should we assume that he will destroy Russell? I think it's the other way around.

The point is that I wouldn't be worried about Piastri if Norris had a hard time with Sainz, who has never been in the #1 category. Piastri has a championship contender as his teammate, so it's okay not to be ahead yet.

[Ben1980]

You guys remember when Norris took a beating from Sainz the first two years? I wouldn't be concerned about Piastri when he has performed at this level against a prime Norris. I still expect Piastri to give Norris a hard time next year because he has more balls than Norris when it comes down to wheel-to-wheel fighting and race starts. Like you said, Piastri is lacking raw speed compare to Norris.

Took a beating seems to be a strong term, especially in 2020.

When it was 8 points and 1 qualifying result in it. Though the only podium went to Lando.

In a battle with soneone going to Ferrari and with a lot more experience I think Lando really stood out that year.

Well, with Hamilton leaving for Ferrari, should we assume that he will destroy Russell? I think it's the other way around.

The point is that I wouldn't be worried about Piastri if Norris had a hard time with Sainz, who has never been in the #1 category. Piastri has a championship contender as his teammate, so it's okay not to be ahead yet.

I'm not sure anyone is worried about piastri. But Norris didn't have a hard time with Sainz.

Though Norris was 19 when he started out.

But, personally, I don't think Piastri will usurp Lando, and will likely move in first.

[GrizzleBoy]

Lando has shown more aggression to Lewis Hamilton for complimenting him and his teams pace than he has shown Max all year.

Lando defended harder against Lewis in 2021 than he has against Msx all year (might be some hyperbole in there).

Its just weird, but i guess thats what it looks like when your name is Lando Norris and youre suddenly fighting against who youbthought was your bestie.

[proteus]

Lando has shown more aggression to Lewis Hamilton for complimenting him and his teams pace than he has shown Max all year.

Lando defended harder against Lewis in 2021 than he has against Msx all year (might be some hyperbole in there).

Its just weird, but i guess thats what it looks like when your name is Lando Norris and youre suddenly fighting against who youbthought was your bestie.

There is much more at stake here. Mclaren is a title contender first time since 2012, and they made it clear it is a no. 1 priority at the moment. So crashing with Max at every other race is a no-go, especially since Ferrari is very close.