Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[stevesingo]

And what is the impact on the turbocharger if it has been designed to run with a specific lubricant?

[Mr.G]

The rules (max of 4mj for 33.33 seconds per lap). The best teams are able to deploy for the whole lap senza lifting and braking points. examples:_4mj for 33.33 seconds per lap. 2mj for 66.66 seconds per lap 1mj for 133.32 seconds per lap and any such combination of power and time within the allowed maximum.

From ES to the K.

You're still ignoring the unlimited paths between ES and H and back and H and K and back. Unlimited in terms of energy transfer.

As long as when you then put it through the K it doesn't exceed 120kw of power you can have as many MJ as you can muster going through the K.

Exactly, you can put whatever you like as long as it goes through the "K" and it doesn't exceed 120kw of power.

This may be the loop hole - in the diagram there is 120kW and not clearly specified...
- one can interpret it as the maximum energy flow e.g. 120kW of el. energy => 33second
- or you can interpret it as the 120kW el. motor/generator (you can not have 150kW MGU-K) and with the unlimited flow you can power this 120kW motor/generator as long as you have energy for it...

[Oehrly]

Can anyone tell me, what are these "other ancillaries" to which there is an unlimited path from the ERS. Would there be any possibility of getting that energy into the drivetrain ("accidentally" of course)?

Also 300kJ of non-ERS energy stores is a considerable amount if one could somehow use that. If you feed that into a motor just hypothetically you get +20kW for 15sec. (I know it's not allowed directly)
What is this energy primarily intended to be used for?

[henry]

Can anyone tell me, what are these "other ancillaries" to which there is an unlimited path from the ERS. Would there be any possibility of getting that energy into the drivetrain ("accidentally" of course)?

Also 300kJ of non-ERS energy stores is a considerable amount if one could somehow use that. If you feed that into a motor just hypothetically you get +20kW for 15sec. (I know it's not allowed directly)
What is this energy primarily intended to be used for?

Only 20 KJ may be used at a rate greater than 2 kw. So you might get +20 kW for 1 second.

[trinidefender]

From ES to the K.

You're still ignoring the unlimited paths between ES and H and back and H and K and back. Unlimited in terms of energy transfer.

As long as when you then put it through the K it doesn't exceed 120kw of power you can have as many MJ as you can muster going through the K.

Exactly, you can put whatever you like as long as it goes through the "K" and it doesn't exceed 120kw of power.

This may be the loop hole - in the diagram there is 120kW and not clearly specified...
- one can interpret it as the maximum energy flow e.g. 120kW of el. energy => 33second
- or you can interpret it as the 120kW el. motor/generator (you can not have 150kW MGU-K) and with the unlimited flow you can power this 120kW motor/generator as long as you have energy for it...

No that part is fairly clear.

120kw is a power rating. Equivalent to about 163 metric HP (At 95% efficiency) which can be added or subtracted from the drivetrain.

The 4MJ limit is an energy limit and only applies from the ES to the MGU-K. The MGU-H can provide extra energy to extend this 33.333 seconds (at 120kW) for as long as it can provide extra energy.

[dans79]

The 4MJ limit is an energy limit and only applies from the ES to the MGU-K. The MGU-H can provide extra energy to extend this 33.333 seconds (at 120kW) for as long as it can provide extra energy.

4MJ is also the maximum delta allowed between the minimum and maximum stats of charge for the ES.

[trinidefender]

The 4MJ limit is an energy limit and only applies from the ES to the MGU-K. The MGU-H can provide extra energy to extend this 33.333 seconds (at 120kW) for as long as it can provide extra energy.

4MJ is also the maximum delta allowed between the minimum and maximum stats of charge for the ES.

So it is. However that doesn't affect any electrical energy flow between the MGU-H and MGU-K which will bypass the ES completely.

[FW17]

The CE and ES are both located under the fuel tank. K and H even if linked directly will need to pass through the CE

Ferrari were doing something clever with the CE and ES, both which have its electronics, both located in the same location. This shared area may have been played around to deliver more than 4mj from the ES

[Big Mangalhit]

The CE and ES are both located under the fuel tank. K and H even if linked directly will need to pass through the CE

Ferrari were doing something clever with the CE and ES, both which have its electronics, both located in the same location. This shared area may have been played around to deliver more than 4mj from the ES

I think a lot of the arguing on this site would be calmed down if we always used words like allegedly when referring to rumours that a team is cheating. Because I think that doesn't sit well with some fans especially when there is not one bit of evidence. It also creates a confusion because if repeated enough it almost becomes truth like so many misconceptions perpetrated in this forum just by repetition.

Sorry for using your post tho. I didn't want to single you out. This happens very often with everybody just felt like using one example to clarify what I meant.

PS: Good point about the possibility of a leeway of maybe sharing energy between CE and ES bypassing the sensors thanks to local proximity

[saviour stivala]

Exactly, you can put whatever you like as long as it goes through the "K" and it doesn't exceed 120kw of power.

This may be the loop hole - in the diagram there is 120kW and not clearly specified...
- one can interpret it as the maximum energy flow e.g. 120kW of el. energy => 33second
- or you can interpret it as the 120kW el. motor/generator (you can not have 150kW MGU-K) and with the unlimited flow you can power this 120kW motor/generator as long as you have energy for it...

No that part is fairly clear.

120kw is a power rating. Equivalent to about 163 metric HP (At 95% efficiency) which can be added or subtracted from the drivetrain.

The 4MJ limit is an energy limit and only applies from the ES to the MGU-K. The MGU-H can provide extra energy to extend this 33.333 seconds (at 120kW) for as long as it can provide extra energy.

totally out of order, totaaly Misinterpreting ERS rules and regulations, just speculating.

[dans79]

totally out of order, totaaly Misinterpreting ERS rules and regulations, just speculating.

huh?

[djones]

I think after another point brought up about engine cheating (something to do with using oil from the turbo), I am quite interested to see if in Monaco the Ferrari engines no longer smoke so much.

[strad]

I think a lot of the arguing on this site would be calmed down if we always used words like allegedly when referring to rumours that a team is cheating. Because I think that doesn't sit well with some fans especially when there is not one bit of evidence. It also creates a confusion because if repeated enough it almost becomes truth like so many misconceptions perpetrated in this forum just by repetition.

.
I think that is a very good point.

[zibby43]

Mercedes asking for clarification on oil burning . . .

And as a result . . . another oil burning "loophole" closed re: the turbocharger.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... e-1040317/

In essence, Mercedes has pinpointed a potential loophole in the wording which could see the turbo considered separately from the ICE, or V6.

The original letter was sent to the FIA's Charlie Whiting by Chris Jilbert, the Head of Product Engineering Capability at Mercedes HPP in Brixworth.

In it, he asked: "With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation), do all oils (and specifically, any oil used in the pressure charging [turbocharger] system) used in the Power Unit need to comply with Article 20?"

Whiting's reply was that "All oils used in the engine must comply with Article 20 of the F1 Technical Regulations. The turbocharger is considered part of the engine."

Jilbert's second question was: "If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does it therefore follow that the combined oil consumption of all the Power Unit oils must respect the 0.6lts/100km limit referenced within TD/012-17?", referring to previous Technical Directives about oil consumption.

Whiting replied with a "Yes."

Didn't AMuS reported that FIA inspected that and everything was fine?

This must be a separate but still related issue. The focus has shifted to the turbocharger, specifically.

[dans79]

Mercedes asking for clarification on oil burning . . .

And as a result . . . another oil burning "loophole" closed re: the turbocharger.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... e-1040317/

In essence, Mercedes has pinpointed a potential loophole in the wording which could see the turbo considered separately from the ICE, or V6.

The original letter was sent to the FIA's Charlie Whiting by Chris Jilbert, the Head of Product Engineering Capability at Mercedes HPP in Brixworth.

In it, he asked: "With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation), do all oils (and specifically, any oil used in the pressure charging [turbocharger] system) used in the Power Unit need to comply with Article 20?"

Whiting's reply was that "All oils used in the engine must comply with Article 20 of the F1 Technical Regulations. The turbocharger is considered part of the engine."

Jilbert's second question was: "If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does it therefore follow that the combined oil consumption of all the Power Unit oils must respect the 0.6lts/100km limit referenced within TD/012-17?", referring to previous Technical Directives about oil consumption.

Whiting replied with a "Yes."

Didn't AMuS reported that FIA inspected that and everything was fine?

This must be a separate but still related issue. The focus has shifted to the turbocharger, specifically.

It will be interesting to see where this goes, because getting oil into the engine via the turbo seems like it would be strait forward and easy to do.