Lotus E21 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
korzeniow
korzeniow
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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munudeges wrote:
korzeniow wrote:On straights all of the F1 cars have too much downforce :roll: That's the point
What an idiotic pile of nonsense and perfectly exemplifies this forum these days. No I don't get your point.....and neither do you. :roll:

It's a case of what you put your effort into and what gives you those most gain.
A bit touchy, aren't we?

https://twitter.com/ACooperF1/status/240459253813481473

There were reports that this system could be worth around half a second at some tracks, if you could name any other single area of the car or areo device that could give similar benefit I would agree with you.
It's been a long time since we drove last time, but it has also been a short time at the same time
Roam Grosjean ponders the passing of time on the first day of testing at Jerez
February 5, 2013

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Blackout
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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wesley123 wrote:the small winglets on the rear wing end plate are split up too, dont know if that is new
China :wink:

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raymondu999
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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ringo wrote:COuld the bulb under the nose help tyre wear in the corners aerodynamically?
It just occurred to me..
Can we also verify if this bulb is getting bigger?
I don't quite see how you're making the jump from the pelican nose to tyre life. Perhaps you could illuminate the link so we can better discuss this proposition?
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aral
aral
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Nothing much has been said about the small wings ahead of and above the side pods. I suppose that these are like the McLaren flow conditioners, but as these fins appear to be basically free standing, apart from a small support, are they not actually banned when the ban on x wings came into force?

Huntresa
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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gilgen wrote:Nothing much has been said about the small wings ahead of and above the side pods. I suppose that these are like the McLaren flow conditioners, but as these fins appear to be basically free standing, apart from a small support, are they not actually banned when the ban on x wings came into force?
X-wings were in an area that wasn't regulated and It was also like three regulation eras ago :P

Today everything you see is on the limit within the areas where we have no boxes that doesn't allow bodywork

Owen.C93
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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korzeniow wrote:
munudeges wrote:
korzeniow wrote:On straights all of the F1 cars have too much downforce :roll: That's the point
What an idiotic pile of nonsense and perfectly exemplifies this forum these days. No I don't get your point.....and neither do you. :roll:

It's a case of what you put your effort into and what gives you those most gain.
A bit touchy, aren't we?

https://twitter.com/ACooperF1/status/240459253813481473

There were reports that this system could be worth around half a second at some tracks, if you could name any other single area of the car or areo device that could give similar benefit I would agree with you.
Why did you post that tweet? I'm confused.
Motorsport Graduate in search of team experience ;)

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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I think we're all confused.

Lotus either put a lot of effort into a drag reduction system, which based on last season is going to take up several Friday sessions worth, which nets them a few tenths around Spa or Monza and a negligible gain elsewhere at most. Or they spend their time adding downforce and cornering speed to the car, which is where they're lacking, which will help them at every track.

That's the gist of it. Drag reduction is something you look at when you've exhausted all other avenues of adding performance.

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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munudeges wrote:I think we're all confused.

Lotus either put a lot of effort into a drag reduction system, which based on last season is going to take up several Friday sessions worth, which nets them a few tenths around Spa or Monza and a negligible gain elsewhere at most. Or they spend their time adding downforce and cornering speed to the car, which is where they're lacking, which will help them at every track.

That's the gist of it. Drag reduction is something you look at when you've exhausted all other avenues of adding performance.
Speaking from technical ignorance but no it's not the gist of it. It's a unique competitive advantage, just like f-duct was for example. Also you're acting as if they're not working on adding downforce in a conventional way. Maybe it's getting harder not just for them but for everybody in the last season of current rules? The only criteria of its worth is gain measured in seconds (in a particular design) compared to alternatives + uniqueness factor. And where did you get "few tenths" on two tracks and "negligible" elsewhere claim? Could you for once back it up? It should be beneficial on many tracks (the ones with a long straight I would guess (?), if it's not too simplistic), but AFAIR not particularly at Monza.

Granted it is/was risky. One: when they committed to it expected gains were probably bigger and implementation easier (a bit like forward exhaust...) Remember how enthusiastic they were last season announcing it? Two: when I hear that they're going to test it in Silverstone I immediately have a question: what if it rains? :wink:

They wasted large chunk of development last season on it, they included it in a design of 2013 car, they spent shorten winter testing time to learn about it so if they can't make it work it's going to be costly. I wonder if there's a date past which they have to abandon it. I mean related to switching to 2014 design (second part of the season they say).

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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I'm not the one claiming that drag reduction somehow magically claims half a second (see ridiculous tweet above which is somehow supposed to tell us all we need to know). I do wish people would read the context of posts............

The amount of time that Lotus spent on this last year and the amount of time and resources it clearly diverted away from the productive areas of development (downforce gains around the exhaust that they took most of the year to add) should have been crystal clear for all to see. You either get that or you don't.

That's why Lotus haven't spent any time on that area in any of the recent race weekends. As simple as.

stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Image
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via formula1.com
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

IceIceBaby
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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korzeniow wrote: A bit touchy, aren't we?

https://twitter.com/ACooperF1/status/240459253813481473

There were reports that this system could be worth around half a second at some tracks, if you could name any other single area of the car or areo device that could give similar benefit I would agree with you.
I am also confused with this post. Can you support such claims that the DRD will have a half a second advantage?

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Gary Anderson Analysis of the Barcelona E21 FW update

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ringo
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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raymondu999 wrote:
ringo wrote:COuld the bulb under the nose help tyre wear in the corners aerodynamically?
It just occurred to me..
Can we also verify if this bulb is getting bigger?
I don't quite see how you're making the jump from the pelican nose to tyre life. Perhaps you could illuminate the link so we can better discuss this proposition?
I'm referring to the transient behavior of the car in the turns. It's not a jump. The forces over the car are linked to the tyre life.
If the bulb allows more stable flow under the car in transients, it will allow more consistent forces over the tyres.

The bulb is not a straight line improvement for downforce. In fact a nose like ferrari's increaes downforce, the bulb takes away from it.
This feature is for corners, it probably makes the car more driveable as well. What appears to me though, is that it is bigger than last year's bulb.
And after hearing what Paul Hembrey had to say of the car taking the tyres to the limit, i could see where having this compromise is a wise thing to do. This is also reflected in Force India's improvement in the races this year. Their car is quite competitive.
For Sure!!

Richard
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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What is the purpose of the bulb? A better car kinder on its tyres isn't really the answer we're looking for! Obviously anything that delivers a more drivable car is likely to be kinder to the tyres.

How does it compare to the vanes that some teams have under the nose? How does it compare to the snow plough?

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Gridlock
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Joined: 27 Jan 2012, 04:14

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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munudeges wrote:nets them a few tenths around Spa or Monza and a negligible gain elsewhere at most
I did idly wonder whether in fact they might have found something crazy like 20mph top speed advantage but the switching is so temperamental that you could only run it at very specific track profiles. A kind of mid-season double diffusor if you will, sitting there doing nothing until suddenly you're 4 seconds a lap faster at 3 tracks...

Mostly this is because those ears are really bugging me, when people at other teams complain about the weight/CoG problems of running a vanity panel and yet here's a set of CF headphones twice as far from the reference plane.
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