2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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bonjon1979 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:11
Gosh, having looked at all of this then I am having my opinion changed. If max had stayed on track, then I'd've said no way a penalty. The fact that he goes off and was so clearly behind hamilton makes me think that he was a very lucky boy indeed. If I were Mercedes, I'd be asking some questions and kicking up a stink so that he doesn't get away with it again.
Merc can still protest before Thursday as this is new evidence

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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siskue2005 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:12
bonjon1979 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:11
Gosh, having looked at all of this then I am having my opinion changed. If max had stayed on track, then I'd've said no way a penalty. The fact that he goes off and was so clearly behind hamilton makes me think that he was a very lucky boy indeed. If I were Mercedes, I'd be asking some questions and kicking up a stink so that he doesn't get away with it again.
Merc can still protest before Thursday as this is new evidence
There is no decision to protest though is there?

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:14
siskue2005 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:12
bonjon1979 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:11
Gosh, having looked at all of this then I am having my opinion changed. If max had stayed on track, then I'd've said no way a penalty. The fact that he goes off and was so clearly behind hamilton makes me think that he was a very lucky boy indeed. If I were Mercedes, I'd be asking some questions and kicking up a stink so that he doesn't get away with it again.
Merc can still protest before Thursday as this is new evidence
There is no decision to protest though is there?
'No investigation necessary' - that was the decision taken by the stewards.

But they shouldn't do it. i thought it was great how hamilton took the high road, merc should do the same while putting some pressure on to the FIA and reminding everyone of the merry stink that horner et al made at silverstone.
Last edited by bonjon1979 on 16 Nov 2021, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

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andrewf1
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:14
siskue2005 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:12
bonjon1979 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:11
Gosh, having looked at all of this then I am having my opinion changed. If max had stayed on track, then I'd've said no way a penalty. The fact that he goes off and was so clearly behind hamilton makes me think that he was a very lucky boy indeed. If I were Mercedes, I'd be asking some questions and kicking up a stink so that he doesn't get away with it again.
Merc can still protest before Thursday as this is new evidence
There is no decision to protest though is there?
Not as of now, because the footage was just released a few moments ago.
I hope Merc protest. Such unsporting driving should never be permitted. Rosberg did it to Lewis in 2016 twice and got punished too.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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If that isn’t a penalty for unnecessarily leaving the track, failing to make the corner, and crowding a driver who won the lead off the track, I don’t know what is. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the victory was taken on track, but this is a very worrying precedent in the championship. We need cleaner and fair racing for the best man to win. abusing the inside line like that is dirty. He wasn’t along side enough at the 50 yard board to be doing that.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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AeroDynamic wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:23
If that isn’t a penalty for unnecessarily leaving the track, failing to make the corner, and crowding a driver who won the lead off the track, I don’t know what is. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the victory was taken on track, but this is a very worrying precedent in the championship. We need cleaner and fair racing for the best man to win. abusing the inside line like that is dirty. He wasn’t along side enough at the 50 yard board to be doing that.
Agree, he doesn't even turn until he was sure Lewis is out of the track...watch his head

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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AeroDynamic wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:23
If that isn’t a penalty for unnecessarily leaving the track, failing to make the corner, and crowding a driver who won the lead off the track, I don’t know what is. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad the victory was taken on track, but this is a very worrying precedent in the championship. We need cleaner and fair racing for the best man to win. abusing the inside line like that is dirty. He wasn’t along side enough at the 50 yard board to be doing that.
This is what gets me too.

If this doesn't even warrant investigation, then why not just run 2x car widths away from the apex at the end of every single DRS straight?

Or effectively use your car to determine where and when the outside car can actually make the corner, if at all?

Apparently it's just perfectly legal hard racing.

Max has benefitted from somehow being exempt from long held racing standards in the past (I.e his braking zone weaving bs), but surely this is a step too far.

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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There was no investigation to protest though. If the stewards would’ve investigated and came to a ‘no action required’ decision then that’s a decision Mercedes could protest/appeal, no such investigation occurred though.

There’s no formal investigation documents on the FIA website for this incident, if there was then the usual wording about appealing the decision etc would be there to allow Mercedes to ask the incident to be re-reviewed.

Unless there is a mechanism for the FIA (either off their own back, or with pressure from Mercedes) to instigate in review of the incident then nothing can be done. It’s unlikely the FIA would do this too as it would risk making the stewards look incompetent by not even declaring the incident will be reviewed after the race, when Max’s onboards would’ve been available to them.

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AMG.Tzan
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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He didn't even turn the wheel :lol: :lol: :lol:

What a joke by the FIA...



Problem is: If there was gravel or grass on the outside there it would have meant the end of the race for Lewis at least or even both of them (which would have kept Max 22 points in front)!

A 5 second penalty after the race wouldn't have removed the "hard racing" part from this fight! I think Mercedes should do something about this!

Other than that Masi is quite inconsistent! At Silverstone Alonso was weaving like crazy down the straight and he didn't even get noted to the stewards! Verstapen did this again at Barcelona and again nothing happened! I cannot understand the way of thinking of Masi! Whiting never was so inconsistent with his decisions...
Last edited by AMG.Tzan on 16 Nov 2021, 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
"The only rule is there are no rules" - Aristotle Onassis

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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f1jcw wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 14:34
Get stuck in guys




Me personally, inconclusive either way
Doesn't turn in in any meaningful way, just aims for a point well to the right of any semblance of a line that would go around the corner and just drives Hamilton off track. It's like Rosberg in Austria but a more open corner so the effect is less sudden.

Max has been given a free pass there as they won't do anything about it now.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:35
There was no investigation to protest though. If the stewards would’ve investigated and came to a ‘no action required’ decision then that’s a decision Mercedes could protest/appeal, no such investigation occurred though.

There’s no formal investigation documents on the FIA website for this incident, if there was then the usual wording about appealing the decision etc would be there to allow Mercedes to ask the incident to be re-reviewed.

Unless there is a mechanism for the FIA (either off their own back, or with pressure from Mercedes) to instigate in review of the incident then nothing can be done. It’s unlikely the FIA would do this too as it would risk making the stewards look incompetent by not even declaring the incident will be reviewed after the race, when Max’s onboards would’ve been available to them.

To be fair, I think after losing 3 pts from being disqualified over a slightly damaged wing that was out the regs by a coat of paint’s worth of difference to just one end of the innermost wing, a 5 sec penalty demoting MV to p3 would make things about right after that shenanigan from him. And would set the right precedent going forward.

Otherwise MV might as well be rewarded for deliberately breaking rules to win.. or worse, take a driver out, which I don’t think is beyond Max’s character at all.
Last edited by AeroDynamic on 16 Nov 2021, 15:38, edited 1 time in total.

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:35
There was no investigation to protest though. If the stewards would’ve investigated and came to a ‘no action required’ decision then that’s a decision Mercedes could protest/appeal, no such investigation occurred though.

There’s no formal investigation documents on the FIA website for this incident, if there was then the usual wording about appealing the decision etc would be there to allow Mercedes to ask the incident to be re-reviewed.

Unless there is a mechanism for the FIA (either off their own back, or with pressure from Mercedes) to instigate in review of the incident then nothing can be done. It’s unlikely the FIA would do this too as it would risk making the stewards look incompetent by not even declaring the incident will be reviewed after the race, when Max’s onboards would’ve been available to them.
There is no such rule
Anyone can protest any results of the weekend

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AeroDynamic
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Joined: 28 Sep 2021, 12:25
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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siskue2005 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:38
KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:35
There was no investigation to protest though. If the stewards would’ve investigated and came to a ‘no action required’ decision then that’s a decision Mercedes could protest/appeal, no such investigation occurred though.

There’s no formal investigation documents on the FIA website for this incident, if there was then the usual wording about appealing the decision etc would be there to allow Mercedes to ask the incident to be re-reviewed.

Unless there is a mechanism for the FIA (either off their own back, or with pressure from Mercedes) to instigate in review of the incident then nothing can be done. It’s unlikely the FIA would do this too as it would risk making the stewards look incompetent by not even declaring the incident will be reviewed after the race, when Max’s onboards would’ve been available to them.
There is no such rule
Anyone can protest any results of the weekend
Source?

KeiKo403
KeiKo403
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Joined: 18 Feb 2011, 00:16

Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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siskue2005 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:38
KeiKo403 wrote:
16 Nov 2021, 15:35
There was no investigation to protest though. If the stewards would’ve investigated and came to a ‘no action required’ decision then that’s a decision Mercedes could protest/appeal, no such investigation occurred though.

There’s no formal investigation documents on the FIA website for this incident, if there was then the usual wording about appealing the decision etc would be there to allow Mercedes to ask the incident to be re-reviewed.

Unless there is a mechanism for the FIA (either off their own back, or with pressure from Mercedes) to instigate in review of the incident then nothing can be done. It’s unlikely the FIA would do this too as it would risk making the stewards look incompetent by not even declaring the incident will be reviewed after the race, when Max’s onboards would’ve been available to them.
There is no such rule
Anyone can protest any results of the weekend
I know I’m going to sound like an a-hole here but I really don’t mean to.
Are there any examples of teams protesting the results due to driving standards (or lack thereof)

Also is the written in the sporting regs? I did have a look earlier but couldn’t see anything specifically as it all pointed to “appendix: 4.c.you’ll never find it.j.x.2b”

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

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Let them race is basically a clause that means, for the sake of the show, anything goes at the front unless it results in a crash. This clause is only an advantage to drivers who don’t want to achieve things cleanly and fairly in a sportive way.

It works for this driver because his philosophy and approach to racing has no place within the rules. So the FIA and the show have decided to turn a blind eye to accommodate this to help the show live on. Because let’s face it, if the rules were being applied consistently and evenly, then some drivers would get penalties all the time. Like it used to happen to Max. But since Charlie passed, the FIA has become weak and spineless (like it did with Charles in 2019 at Monza)

The crazy thing about this, those responsible that want to race outside the sportive rules, are the ones that have got the sport believing “we are ruining racing” by applying the rules. Vettel case in Canada ‘19 was a genuine example of the rules going a bit far. But it’s others who hijacked vettel’s case for their own agenda to change the way the racing is now. But the reality is, it’s the drivers that are ruining the sport now, not the rules. The driver(s). Just race within the rules the way it’s supposed to be and then you won’t get a penalty. Don’t cry about it or blame the sport, change your approach.


It’s becoming a joke that we can police drivers touching cars, loosening belts and damaged wings so closely but not the actual racing :lol:
Last edited by AeroDynamic on 16 Nov 2021, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.