2013 Belgian GP - Spa

[beelsebob]

One could only dream that this era returned to Formula 1 (V10 Naturally aspirated engines that is) with reduction in aero....if only:

Why on earth would you wish that? That was the single most boring era F1 has ever had.

[SectorOne]

More on the chicane bit. It has nothing to do with how many degrees of lock the driver has or anything like that.
Chicanes are not motorsport specific.

A chicane is an artificial feature creating extra turns in a road, used in motor racing and on streets to slow traffic for safety. Chicane comes from the French verb chicaner, which means "to quibble" or "to prevent justice".[1]

This is Bus stop,
the chicane at Suzuka,
the chicane at Singapore (it´s just one chicane, it´s a different variation that´s all)
Monza (2),
second to last corner in Spain.
Chicane at Monaco (not swimming pool area)
Canada last corner is a chicane.
Vale at Silverstone,
NGK Chicane Nurburgring
Hungary T6 and T7.
T5 T6 at Abu Dhabi, Also T8 and T9. T11-T12-T13 is one chicane.
Brazil T1 is for example not a chicane but an S.

Outside F1, this is a chicane for example. Designed with the purpose of slowing people down.
In this case because it´s a train track.

[SectorOne]

Hungary is actually a brilliant example because right after the chicane you have another left right but this is not a chicane. It´s pure track design.

It´s not an Esse either. It´s simply two corners that are connected with each other.
If it was faster and a little bit more open it would be an Esse.

[beelsebob]

More on the chicane bit. It has nothing to do with how many degrees of lock the driver has or anything like that.
Chicanes are not motorsport specific.

A chicane is an artificial feature creating extra turns in a road, used in motor racing and on streets to slow traffic for safety. Chicane comes from the French verb chicaner, which means "to quibble" or "to prevent justice".[1]

This is Bus stop,
the chicane at Suzuka,
the chicane at Singapore (it´s just one chicane, it´s a different variation that´s all)
Monza (2),
second to last corner in Spain.
Chicane at Monaco (not swimming pool area)
Canada last corner is a chicane.
Vale at Silverstone,
NGK Chicane Nurburgring
Hungary T6 and T7.
T5 T6 at Abu Dhabi, Also T8 and T9. T11-T12-T13 is one chicane.
Brazil T1 is for example not a chicane but an S.

Outside F1, this is a chicane for example. Designed with the purpose of slowing people down.
In this case because it´s a train track.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... gitter.jpg

The fact that you claim that there are only 2 at monza shows how wrong you are

They're called Variante del Rettifilo, Variante della Roggia and Variante Ascari for a reason – because Variante is italian for chicane

[Hail22]

One could only dream that this era returned to Formula 1 (V10 Naturally aspirated engines that is) with reduction in aero....if only:

Why on earth would you wish that? That was the single most boring era F1 has ever had.

Noticed how I mainly highlighted V10 Naturally aspirated engines...not the era itself...just the powerplant, nothing more, nothing less.


and to Raymondo...I was hinting "further" reduction of aero.

That and perhaps one day hoping they finally budget cap Formula 1 (I may be alone on this line of thought).

[Overdriving]

Despite what people say, Spa is one of the easiest tracks on the calender. All the drivers pretty much do well here. Haven't heard of it being being a "bane track" for anyone.

Tell that to Alonso. IMO it's just about (as close as it gets to) a bane track for Alonso

And it isn't the luckiest track for Lewis, either. 3 retirements in 6 years, 4th and 3rd place and 1 win. Not exactly exceptional record.

[SectorOne]

They're called Variante del Rettifilo, Variante della Roggia and Variante Ascari for a reason – because Variante is italian for chicane

Actually Ascari was once much slower, a proper chicane in 74 i believe. Now it is faster.
The names still stays though. Arguably you could still call it a chicane although i´d still refer it to as a Esse curve.
You entry speed is not far from 200km/h. FIA lists it as 169km/h in third gear.

First chicane, 80km/h apex speed. Actually down to 60km/h before getting on the power. 1st gear

Second chicane, 111km/h apex speed. Down to 99 before getting on the power. 2nd gear

And for fun, second Lesmo apex speed is 170, down to 160km/h. 3rd gear.

Third "chicane", 174km/h apex speed. 160 before getting on the power. 3rd gear.
If this is truly by definition a chicane, it is not working because the speed is as high as a regular corner on the track.

And you should not throw rocks in a glass house you called a couple of corners for chicanes that has never once been classified as chicanes ever.

Make a list of all other chicanes i forgot, could be interesting.

[Richard]

Do you mean the angle of the wheel? That'll be a function of radius of the racing line. I guess we're saying the same thing?

The angle rotated will be the same for fast or slow bends. A sweeping 45 degree bend is the same angle as a tight 45 degree bend.

Not angle of the wheel - angle of the car. ie bearing of the second corner, minus bearing of the first. Take the bearings at the apex.

That would not differentiate between a fast 150kph 90 deg bend and a slow 30kph 90 deg bend.

[Racer X]

One could only dream that this era returned to Formula 1 (V10 Naturally aspirated engines that is) with reduction in aero....if only:

Why on earth would you wish that? That was the single most boring era F1 has ever had.

The Hungarian GP is an example of what racing should not be. Personally I don't like Aero to play such a huge role important yes but for it to be the reason we have races where the Aero of your car will cancel out your skill when overtaking idk. Does not feel like racing its like being defeated by your own car. Idk less Aero and more of it being the engine and its driver (also his energy recovevery system) Is what racigs about. So lets hope Pireli learn how to make good tires. So they don't trump racing like this season.

[beelsebob]

They're called Variante del Rettifilo, Variante della Roggia and Variante Ascari for a reason – because Variante is italian for chicane

Actually Ascari was once much slower, a proper chicane in 74 i believe. Now it is faster.
The names still stays though. Arguably you could still call it a chicane although i´d still refer it to as a Esse curve.
You entry speed is not far from 200km/h. FIA lists it as 169km/h in third gear.

First chicane, 80km/h apex speed. Actually down to 60km/h before getting on the power. 1st gear

Second chicane, 111km/h apex speed. Down to 99 before getting on the power. 2nd gear

And for fun, second Lesmo apex speed is 170, down to 160km/h. 3rd gear.

Third "chicane", 174km/h apex speed. 160 before getting on the power. 3rd gear.
If this is truly by definition a chicane, it is not working because the speed is as high as a regular corner on the track.

Who said chicanes had to be slow corners? The entire point here is that Fanges is a fast chicane, just like Variante Ascari.

So here's a (possibly incomplete) list of chicanes on the current calendar that you didn't mention (IMO):
The swimming pool entry and exit at Monaco.
Turn 3/4, and turn 8/9 at Canada.
Les Combes, and Fanges at Spa.
Variante Ascari at Monza.
Turn 6/7 at Buddh.

[turbof1]

I take it back; the mountain-hill conversation was much more ehmm... peaceful.

[SectorOne]

I hope this is peaceful as well, I think everyone is in line, i certainly have no intent on being rude to anyone.

Who said chicanes had to be slow corners? The entire point here is that Fanges is a fast chicane, just like Variante Ascari.

A chicane by definition is to slow F1 cars down. Remember the word chicane is not created in F1, it comes from outside F1.

But it´s not. Only you and maybe another member has ever claimed Fagnes to be a chicane.

The swimming pool entry and exit at Monaco.

T13-14 is not a chicane but one i did forgot honestly is T15-T16. Maybe that is the one you are referring to?

Turn 3/4, and turn 8/9 at Canada.

Agree 100%, missed those.

Les Combes, and Fanges at Spa.

Obviously disagree here.

Variante Ascari at Monza.

Disagree since it´s a faster corner then a regular corner on track.

Turn 6/7 at Buddh.

Check the onboard, it´s a regular corner. What it really is, is a long left hander that opens up. It´s not a chicane.

If anything you should have said 8 and 9 but with them being taken at 220km/h it´s not really chicane but an Esse.
A tilke-esse which means it´s 0% organic in it´s layout and super short apexes.

[SectorOne]

Here´s the onboard for India, notice the corners you mentioned.
It´s a fast entry left hander that slows down until it opens up. Layout does not correlate to the actual racing line in this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it4bhfhS2XY

[raymondu999]

Interesting, the chicane definition is certainly new to me. In effect, chicanes have to be there to slow the cars down, due to a lack of runoff. In effect,chicanes which are there "for the layout" - ie to be incorporated for layout and not for safety - have to be discounted as chicanes.

In effect, this would mean Vale is not a chicane, Abu Dhabi 5/6 is not... Mind boggling.

[beelsebob]

Who said chicanes had to be slow corners? The entire point here is that Fanges is a fast chicane, just like Variante Ascari.

A chicane by definition is to slow F1 cars down. Remember the word chicane is not created in F1, it comes from outside F1.

1) The fact that one use in the past has been to slow things down does not imply that that's the use here.
2) Slow down does not mean "slow". It's entirely possible to have a 180mph corner that slows an F1 car down (from 200mph).

But it´s not. Only you and maybe another member has ever claimed Fagnes to be a chicane.

And only you have claimed it is not. By that sample, twice as many believe it to be a chicane as don't. Of course this is an irrelevant anecdote, so lets stick to the reasoned arguments.

The swimming pool entry and exit at Monaco.

T13-14 is not a chicane but one i did forgot honestly is T15-T16. Maybe that is the one you are referring to?

Buth T13-14 and T15-16 are chicanes.

Turn 3/4, and turn 8/9 at Canada.

Agree 100%, missed those.

Interesting that you agree about turn 8/9 at Canada. It's geometry is very similar to Fanges at Spa. The entry is minutely tighter, but other than that, they're taken at the same speed, they have the same radius, and are the same size.

Variante Ascari at Monza.

Disagree since it´s a faster corner then a regular corner on track.

Again, interesting – again, about the same speed, radius and size as Turn 8/9 at Canada.

Turn 6/7 at Buddh.

Check the onboard, it´s a regular corner. What it really is, is a long left hander that opens up. It´s not a chicane. [/quote]
Uhhh no, turn 5 is a long left hander. There's a short straight between it and turn 6/7 which is a chicane.