Concept power units from 2030

[DenBommer]

the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?

Only on the front wheels?

Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.

In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.

And this without making significant changes to the chassis.

[Tommy Cookers]

the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?

Only on the front wheels?
Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.
In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.
And this without making significant changes to the chassis.

or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin

[DenBommer]

the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?

Only on the front wheels?
Or, since I do believe they can make these very compact and lightweight in F1, maybe a single motor on the front axle and one between the engine and the gearbox, or on the rear axle.
In any case, a lot of energy can be recovered from the front wheels.
And this without making significant changes to the chassis.

or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin

Or something like the koeningsegg direct drive

I still do believe hub motors have a future in F1.

Maybe not within 10/15 years.

I've moved away from the idea that the driver can control torque vectoring themselves. I think in F1, starting from 2026, they'll have more to adjust themselves, like active aerodynamics and maybe also active suspension.

[Tommy Cookers]

with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering systems as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?

[DenBommer]

with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?

And do you have a preference for AWD?

Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?

[Tommy Cookers]

with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?

And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?

well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb

[DenBommer]

with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering mechanisms as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?

And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?

well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb

But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?

[Zynerji]

And do you have a preference for AWD?
Or do you prefer rear-wheel drive?

well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb

But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?

It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!

[DenBommer]

well clearly there should be all-wheel recovery
our 'efficient' recovery will from 2026 still only be recovering a fraction of what could be recovered otherwise
because eg Silverstone etc now has 18 corners
(it had 8 corners till someone called Rosberg cut a 160 mph lap)

I rather like the Lotus 12 - it weighed 700 lb
though smaller cars have run in WDC F1 eg Harry Schell's Cooper at Monaco in 1950 ?
it might have been his (500cc) F3 car
the minimum weight for that (British) formula was 420 lb

But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?

It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!

Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?

[Zynerji]

But isn't the line between all-wheel recovery and deployment rather thin? Don't you think?

It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!

Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?

Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!

[DenBommer]

It's just one F1 level artificial limitation away!

Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?

Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!

Sometimes I think that with AWD, the car becomes too easy to drive. Do you think this as well?

On the other hand, I suspect that cars today are easier to drive than those from, say, 30 years ago.


I like to see nostalgia mixed with technology.

Ideally, I would have an NA V8 with a power output of 700 hp, HCCI ignition, superlubricity supported by 4 wheel-mounted electric motors each producing 100 hp (with regenerative braking, of course), active aerodynamics, and electromagnetic suspension.

With the batteries integrated into the chassis or forming the chassis itself.

[DenBommer]

Or a V8 with an axial or radial flux motor (like the Dark Matter from Koenigsegg) with high-tech batteries integrated into or attached to the chassis. It's simpler, I think, and especially: less is more.

[Zynerji]

Haha, probably.

Your preference was AWD, I thought?

Meh. I like lots of things and tumble through the concepts. Folks here seem to believe that I get stuck on certain viewpoints, but that is not the case. I'm down for the jet-electric AWD, supercharged 1.5l i5 with VLIM/VLEM, or 2005 v10s with synth fuel.

As long as it's exciting and "crazy tech", I'm in!

Sometimes I think that with AWD, the car becomes too easy to drive. Do you think this as well?

On the other hand, I suspect that cars today are easier to drive than those from, say, 30 years ago.


I like to see nostalgia mixed with technology.

Ideally, I would have an NA V8 with a power output of 700 hp, HCCI ignition, superlubricity supported by 4 wheel-mounted electric motors each producing 100 hp (with regenerative braking, of course), active aerodynamics, and electromagnetic suspension.

With the batteries integrated into the chassis or forming the chassis itself.

I only know that my wife is 100% corrupted by her AWD vehicle "sorting out" parts of her driving, and will never be able to return to a FWD vehicle ever again!

[mzso]

the whole electrical side in F1 benefits greatly from the 8 speed gearbox
especially in recovery aka braking

throw that away for wheel 'motors' ?

How so? I don't see the 8 gear ratios being much benefit for the electric motors. Only which allows for the highest RPM for the E motors is interesting, because that allows for the highest power density. And that you don't need to sacrifice for wheel motors.

or have your 4 MGs and the ICE with no gears
1000 rpm round Loew's hairpin

Huh? ICE with no gears? That's impossible.

with part-automatic torque vectoring F1 wouldn't need steering systems as we know them
neither would road cars need wheel arches ?

I think that would only work as a tire shredder and not something that's fast...
I'm reminded of the video when a heavy tracked vehicle did a 180 and completely destroyed the pavement.

[mzso]

I still do believe hub motors have a future in F1.

Maybe not within 10/15 years.

We could have hub motors right now. It entirely depends of the arbitrary rules of the formula. If it would say you can have four motors, but only placed inside the rims then that is what we would have.
But seeing the attitudes around today, I don't see it happening.