Belgian GP 2008

[Belatti]

wont read 17 pages of:

-the egg
-the hen
-the egg
-the hen
-the egg
-the hen
-the egg
-the hen
-the egg
-the hen

just will say: they cant take victory from that kid, he was superb, he deserves WDC, since silverstone I think like this and Spa confirmed it to me

[Bob Brown]

Kimi got robbed by the black anvil in the helicopter AGAIN

Hamilton should deserve some humble pie and shut the hell up of keeping accusing other people and never taking the blame himself.

Massa is freaking lucky this year.

[shotzski]

Hamilton clearly deserved the Spa GP win. I'm a big fan of both Kimi and Lewis. But it's not Lewis's fault that there's not enough room to move around at that corner, and for kimi's slipping-sliding performance at that point. They are racing drivers, and they fought brilliantly.

[bizadfar]

he gained nothing there as the tarmac is always more wet off the racing line, let alone the runoff areas. The line off the track didn't help approaching the next corner either...

Not according to Brundle who said in these conditions the runn-off aread often have more grip. It allowed Kimi to re-enter the race track at full speed which he would otherwise had not been able to had he stayed on the track. This alone allowed him to stay right on Hamilton's ass. This would seem to fall within the definition of 'making a gain' according to the way it has been interpreted before.

But, fair enough, this isn't the issue at hand. I was just pointing out the pretty changeable rulings/views of the marshals when it suits them.

If this ruling stands it'll be another shameful day for F1. I can't wait for Jackie Stewart, Flavio, Sir Frank, Bernie etc to pipe in with their opinions on it.

R

Correct, usually the run off is more abrasive. ANd we all know when it rains on rubbered race line it gets very slippery.

To me the issue is clear. Hamilton did gain some advantage by cutting the chicane. However, he clearly lifted... letting Kimi by and tucked in behind the Ferrari on the run up to La Source.

What more should Hamilton have done? Pulled over and shut it down? Louis drove brilliantly in the wet and deserved better than to be demoted.

I don't get why people still argue unless for extreme strong emotions.
A precedent was set in 2005. End of story.

[freedom_honda]

am i the only one that think FIA is picking on McLaren?

the rule said you have to let the car pass.
Hamilton did lift off the throttle.
he then smartly got back into the slip stream of kimi.
made the most out of it and out-brake kimi at the next corner.
i cant see any problem with that to be honest.

ps. im not a fan of Hamilton/McLaren by the way.

[jddh1]

I did not have time to weigh in on this till now, hours after the race. So here's my two cents for those interested.

As a Ferrari fan, I would've wanted Kimi to win, or Massa, but Kimi was in front so I was hoping he'd take the win. Then the rain came and things to extremely interesting. Those passes were stuff that people talk about years after the events. So I think that the FIA did not do well to penalize Lewis. I guess I'm a fan of the sport first, then Ferrari. We lost the race, and that's it. This is racing. If the FIA bans those passes, then I think it would be more interesting to see these drivers compete in Toyota Prius's and such in the Hybrid series of some sorts. That would probably be more interesting to watch.
Also, there's no reason to be bashing Ferrari and its fans. Rules are rules and they need to be followed. But in this case even I don't think there was much of a rule break here here. If anything it was borderline, and in the interest of the sport they should've let it go.

[jddh1]

oh and to add to that. If Kimi wanted to help the team win, he could've crashed into Lewis's Macca and boom, Massa is leading the championship now. I would've been fine with that. (talking as a fan by the way now, obviously)

[modbaraban]

Yes but if he had gone straight on, modbaraban, he would have crashed straight into the side of Kimi.

Have a look at the picture again.

How can those two cars crash if the move in the same direction? I mean Hamilton didn't just cut the track straight away, but he actually managed to slow the car down enough to avoid contact. And while still having 1 rear wheel on the track and still facing the right direction he took the decision to change direction and go the shorter way. Look at the front wheels.

The photo suggests Lewis could just follow Kimi into the last turn.

[jdavidx]

Its great race, for me i think it could have gone either way between kimi and lewis. Lewis may had the cooler head on the right moment and i think deserved the win. But luck had its say here, and kimi despite the hard tires i believe had the pace to check on whenever lewis makes progress..progress made most of the time during traffic in the last stint.. and its just the misfortune of the rain and its timing and yes being leader that he was the first to arrive to check the grip levels. He is the faster driver in the belgian gp generally(i believe around .1 to .2 faster. "Sometimes he caught it on the straight and he got a tow and then I caught them in mid sector and lost time. It was just mix and match. I was just praying, I was saying please just rain, rain, rain. I wanted the rain to come because I knew how to deal with it. The heavens opened a little bit and I saw Kimi begin to back off a little bit, a lot earlier than he did normally into turn eight and that was really where I knew it was on, the fight was on"."It wasn't over until it's over. I could see the clouds coming, so I just had to make sure. I think three or four laps to the end I said I can't catch this guy, so do I save the engine or do I keep pushing. But then I thought what happens if he makes a mistake or goes off or something like that, so it is never over until the fat lady sings and you see the chequered flag". Kimi deserved the win too. He just have not been lucky enough. Lewis is worthy winner. But thats the rule. Yes its same as what happened in japan in 05 between alonso and klien as bizadfar said. Alonso had to give the place and some more to klien. So there is a clear example. Anyway it does not change that this a great season of racing lets enjoy the rest of it. By the wat guys this the best F1 site, great work.. no nonsense

[Rob W]

The photo suggests Lewis could just follow Kimi into the last turn.

The photo isn't an fair was to demonstrate the situation as you can't see how fast either car is going nor if they have full traction - both important factors in assessing it with any level of impartiality. But - it is clear that Hamilton was fully off the track while Kimi stayed on it. Kimi regained the lead for over 5.5 seconds.

When Hamilton bailed out of that corner it looked to me it was partly because Kimi and he made contact? The video clearly shows them right alongside each other and then Hamilton's car snapping away. Or was he just bailing out to avoid certain contact?

R

[jddh1]

There was no contact at the chicane. But Hamilton did indeed change direction in favor of cutting the corner. It was pretty clear from looking at the live feed. I'm sure you can find a Lewis onboard view where it shows that he did indeed steer away from the track there.

But still, he gave up the position. Kimi should've slowed down all the way till Hamilton had to slow down to...sort of a cat and mouse game you see in cycling if you know what I mean. If Kimi knows he can't break late anymore, then take the opportunity and make Hamilton slow down late anyway.

Also, Ferrari needs to look at themselves as to why not just let the cars come in for inters. Look at what Heidfeld did. Another 2 corners and Heidfeld would've won the race. We are so hung up on this penalty thing, that we forget about the Call of the Race as far as strategy goes.

[timbo]

Likewise, when Hamilton bailed out of that corner it was because Kimi and he made contact I thought?? The video clearly shows them right alongside each other and then Hamilton's car snapping away. Or was he just bailing out to avoid certain contact?

R

He could used his brakes to avoid contact. To me it is the same scenario as MS parking in Monte-Carlo. How could stewards prove that his move was deliberate, did they have mind-reading device?

And I don't get "Lewis drove brilliantly, he deserved to win" at all. It has no relation to THAT particular accident. The issue is did he gained unfair advantage cutting the corner. Note that Maccas appelation is based on speed difference not throttle data, to me Hamilton never attempted to lift and let Kimi pass, it was just that he was on wet side at that time. Anyway we probably would have more information after FIA council.

[timbo]

Also, Ferrari needs to look at themselves as to why not just let the cars come in for inters. Look at what Heidfeld did. Another 2 corners and Heidfeld would've won the race. We are so hung up on this penalty thing, that we forget about the Call of the Race as far as strategy goes.

It was gamble for Heidfeld, yes it worked but gambling is not what you do having drivers 1st and 3rd.

[alexbarwell]

modbaraban, would have thought if you are in the middle of a significant move and your plans get changed, seeing that your heading for a patch of green might encourage you to think 'stay off the grassy stuff', dodging painted sections is advisable anyway. Kimi could only hope for this a few laps later...

BTW, jddh1, very honourable perspective. I've got a bit of a leaning towards mclaren and honda, but dumb moves are exactly that (not in this case), whoever makes them and if the car is a pig there is no point trying to invent excuses for anyone. Winning in the courts is no way to run a championship.

[imightbewrong]

A video of Alonso getting the same penalty (albeit he got it during the race, not after) in 2005:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4