2008 Japanese GP

[i70q7m7ghw]

Funny how they didn't show the onboard for Bourdais, because it would have shown Massa driving in to him, they just showed footage from Massa's car making it look like Bourdais drove in to Massa.

The footage of Massa crashing in to Hamilton was good, but then we all agree that he was in the wrong and he got a penalty for it anyway.

Looking at the start from those angles it doesn't look as bad for Lewis actually. When I saw it happen live I thought it was a bit naughty, but when you look at how far he actually "pushed" Kimi across the track as many have said Kimi could have made turn 1 if it hadn't been for the Heikki.

I think this rule about 25 second penalties being non-protestable is rediculous. Drive-through penalties fine, they've happened during the race and theres very little that can be do to undo one. But a 25 second penalty after the race can just be taken away again for godsakes! Bourdais did nothing wrong and those stewards could well be putting the nail in the coffin for his F1 career.

[Conceptual]

From Ed Gorman's blog that I posted above...
"they are increasingly taking the view that Lewis went into Turn 10 and 11 on lap two with, at the very least, a "devil may care" thought in his mind. He knew he had to pit almost immediately because his front tyres were worn to the canvas where he had flat-spotted them at Turn 1, so he might have been thinking 'what the hell, let's take Felipe on. My race is almost run, maybe he'll do something stupid, especially if I play hard.' Felipe says Lewis pushed him into the gravel; Lewis says Felipe hit him on purpose. Felipe gets a penalty. I don't know. If Lewis was thinking the way the hacks suggest, then his strategy was at least partially successful."
Hmmm....

Complete and utter bull crap, watch the pit stop LH made right after MAssa clobbered him and you will see at clear pit lane speed that none of LH's tires were showing canvas. How would he complete a full lap and be able to catch MAssa with tires flatspotted to the canvas. MAssa deliberatly took out Hamilton, clear as day. HE probly went wide because the Toyota ahead of him braked way early and took his line away, but his move to take out Hamilton was deliberate, and he later lied about LH putting him into the gravel to cover it up. We can all clearly see that LH did no such thing to Massa.

It doesnt look clear to me. It is hard to see the thoughts in Massa's mind from the available camera angles.

Did you use the onboard ESP camera, or the Beta wave telemetry to come to that knowledge? I would like to have access to those instruments some time. Maybe I wouldnt look like such an idiot when I state that I KNOW for sure what was going on in someone elses head that is 5000 miles away from me...

[mx_tifoso]

Felipe on the other hand, should have had 2 drive throughs instead of one. One for hitting, and another one for overtaking off the track. Just not sure if his moves on Webber and Bourdais was legal.

We get it, you're a McLaren fan.

[Shaddock]

Felipe on the other hand, should have had 2 drive throughs instead of one. One for hitting, and another one for overtaking off the track. Just not sure if his moves on Webber and Bourdais was legal.

We get it, you're a McLaren fan.

I think that going by the 'book' Lewis should have got a penalty but not for the offence that we was convicted of. By out braking himself into turn 1 and leaving the track, and in the process passing Kimi he gained an advantage, and so should have given the lead back or received a penalty.

It doesn’t look all that dangerous if you can make the cars out from all the smoke coming from his and Kimi’s locked front wheels. Lewis didn’t deliberately force Kimi wide, let’s face it he couldn’t steer with the front wheels locked and was just a passenger until he took his foot off the brake.

[donskar]

Thank GOD for Ferrari. It gives all sorts of [insert your favorite mental aberration here] people a non-destructive way to release their aggression.

And the rest of us a good laugh. Personally, I'm furious that Ferrari is causing my hair to turn grey AND thin, too! Will Ferrari's evil assault on all that is good and decent NEVER END? We need a hero! We need someone pure and good to end this reign of unceasing evil.

Maybe Max Mosley? Isn't he pretty good with a whip?

[shotzski]

We get it, you're a McLaren fan.

It's not that Mx_tifosi. I'm just pointing out what should have happened according to the rules(Based from what I'm aware of the rules so far). I'm not bashing Massa or Ferrari just because I support their rival. I support all teams and drivers. The FIA lacks consistency/transparency in giving out penalties.

And would you say Felipe's move on Webber and Bourdais legal? If so,would your answer still be the same if it was Hamilton or any other driver who did it?

I don't mean to offend anyone with my posts. I'm just very passionate with the sport. Peace!

[andartop]

It's not that Mx_tifosi. I'm just pointing out what should have happened according to the rules(Based from what I'm aware of the rules so far). I'm not bashing Massa or Ferrari just because I support their rival. I support all teams and drivers. The FIA lacks consistency/transparency in giving out penalties.

And would you say Felipe's move on Webber and Bourdais legal? If so,would your answer still be the same if it was Hamilton or any other driver who did it?

I don't mean to offend anyone with my posts. I'm just very passionate with the sport. Peace!

So, in the same logic, LH should have also received 2 penalties in Canada: one for violating a red light signal and one for causing an unnecessary accident. Ok,I like this idea of multiple penalties for the same incident, let's bring it on! Who do you think will manage to collect the most???

[shotzski]

I'm not sure about Canada since Lewis retired anyway.

Ok,I like this idea of multiple penalties for the same incident, let's bring it on! Who do you think will manage to collect the most???

Lewis will definitrly win on that one! Hands down hehehe
Can anyone provide a tally of penalties this season?

[yzfr7]

Has anyone checked the video from the last race here
http://www.formula1.com/services/play_video.html

They are usually good quality, but this time the music couldn't fit better!

[Shaddock]

These were Heidfelds recent comments on the incident,

"in the last race I think penalties were not justified," Heidfeld told Autosport.

"the one on the start with Hamilton was for me not worth a penalty at all. It is just racing. What did he do (wrong)?"

"The other one with Bourdais was also not understandable."

"The one that is acceptable, maybe arguable, but you can at least follow what they may be thinking, is the one that Massa got for turning around Hamilton,"

It also seems that Webber was investigated/interviewed about his driving when he clashed with Massa. "In the process of overtaking Webber for the final points-paying position, Massa crossed the white lines along the pit-straight deemed to indicate the limits of the race track. As Massa passed the Australian, all four wheels of his Ferrari were placed in the pit-lane exit, prompting some observers, especially during these litigious times, to question whether his move illegal. By the letter of the rulebook, any driver who leaves the race-track has committed an offence that warrants a penalty."

However, far from probe Massa's manoeuvre, the stewards are instead reported to have questioned Webber over whether he resisted the Ferrari too robustly - an offence that Sebastian Bourdais was seemingly found guilty of.

The FIA have announced that for the rest of the season Massa's Ferrari's will be fitted with flashing blue lights and bull horns as other driver aren't pulling over and giving up their postions quickly enough. Drivers that don't respond promptly to an approaching Ferrari will be given a drive through penalty and/or a 10 place grid slot demotion for the next race.

EDIT: If this championship ends with a tie after countback, I wonder who the FIA would nominate as their worthy Champion ?

7.1 D IF THIS PROCEDURE FAILS TO PRODUCE A RESULT, THE FIA WILL NOMINATE THE WINNER ACCORDING TO SUCH CRITERIA AS IT THINKS FIT.

[ISLAMATRON]

I'm not sure about Canada since Lewis retired anyway.

Ok,I like this idea of multiple penalties for the same incident, let's bring it on! Who do you think will manage to collect the most???

Lewis will definitrly win on that one! Hands down hehehe
Can anyone provide a tally of penalties this season?

Ther is a huge difference between Penalties deserved vs Penalties given.

MAssa has been given a free pass at least 4 times this year(Valencia/Singapore/Japan x2)

Where as LH has been unfairly penalised 3 maybe 4 times(Canada/France/Spa/Japan), I say Canada bcuz he was given a 10 spotgrid penalty for hitting KIMI whereas KIMI was given no penalty for ramming Sutil from behind)

We are talking about at least a 10 point swing in points becuz of the inconsistant(if not outright biased) officiating of the Stwerads.

They actually awarded Massa a win for a race he did not lead for even 1 sec, has that ever been done b4?

[Ray]

I say Canada bcuz he was given a 10 spotgrid penalty for
hitting KIMI whereas KIMI was given no penalty for ramming Sutil from behind

[walter]

I'm not sure about Canada since Lewis retired anyway.

Ok,I like this idea of multiple penalties for the same incident, let's bring it on! Who do you think will manage to collect the most???

Lewis will definitrly win on that one! Hands down hehehe
Can anyone provide a tally of penalties this season?

Where as LH has been unfairly penalised 3 maybe 4 times(Canada/France/Spa/Japan), I say Canada bcuz he was given a 10 spotgrid penalty for hitting KIMI whereas KIMI was given no penalty for ramming Sutil from behind)[/b]

There's a difference between a collision where the driver loses control due to weather conditions, and a collision where the driver is not paying attention to track safety devices such as the pit light.

There's also a difference between a fair comment about penalties and a biased one against ferrari [-X

[MattF1]

EDIT: If this championship ends with a tie after countback, I wonder who the FIA would nominate as their worthy Champion ?

7.1 D IF THIS PROCEDURE FAILS TO PRODUCE A RESULT, THE FIA WILL NOMINATE THE WINNER ACCORDING TO SUCH CRITERIA AS IT THINKS FIT.

Something like most fastest laps perhaps?
Or a head to head qualifying shootout after the race?

[ISLAMATRON]

There's a difference between a collision where the driver loses control due to weather conditions, and a collision where the driver is not paying attention to track safety devices such as the pit light.

There's also a difference between a fair comment about penalties and a biased one against ferrari [-X

Not paying attention to weather conditions(I think the police call it "not excersizing due care") not watching a track safety device?, whats the difference? I still think that whole incident had something to do with KIMI's pit lane speed limiter light not flashing in the pit lane, go back and see that Kubika's & LH'S & Rosberg's are flashing but KIMI's isnt for some reason. Why was KIMI next to Kubica anyway? was he trying to pass him coming out of pit lane? I thought there was no passing behind the safety car? Should he have lined up behind him? And if not Why couldnt Hamilton Line up next to KIMI(there was planty of space)? What if he tried and misjudged it? Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.