Lotus E21 Renault

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stefan_
stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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FrukostScones wrote:
Tim.Wright wrote:
stefan_ wrote:The article says that if they opt for that solution the would have to pass a crash test, not that they already had. I don't know about this, a longer wheelbase means a new (longer) chassis and a new chassis means a pretty much new car with different aero, mechanical benaviour, etc.
A longer wheel doesn't necessarily mean a new chassis. You only need to change the wishbones to sweep forward or back a little bit more. I believe this is what Mercedes did a coule of years ago when they lengthened their wheelbase mid season.

the article says (in translated garbled English):
A longer wheelbase means longer nose
Lotus has yet a further coup in the hindquarters. The wheelbase of the E21 should be extended to ten centimeters. And (meant is at the front) front. Because is it pushes forward the front axle by a different angle of the Wishbone, Lotus needs also a new, longer nose. Thus, the distance between the front wing and front tyre is maintained. This procedure requires two new crash tests. The dynamic front from the front and the so-called go from test side. While a hydraulic punch presses with a force of 4,000 Newton from the side towards the nose to determine at what strength she cancels. The nose must withstand over 30 seconds to a weight of 400 kg without any structural damage occur.
so new crash tests only for the nose
Now I get it. It's a little hard to understand at the first read with these apporximate translations.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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Blackout
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Exactly, they don't need to modifiy the chassis, they can keep the same mounting points for the front suspensions but they don't need to change the dimensions of the nose either IMO, they could jut modify the angle of the FW supports and sweep them forward. Mercedes also did that in 2010 AFAIR.
Before (straight FW vertical supports):
http://cdn.carsroute.com/wp-content/upl ... 24x681.jpg
After (curved and displaced)
http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/8 ... P_2010.jpg

wesley123
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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10 cm seems like a crazy long Wheelbase extension. 10 mm seems far more likely. These cars already have really long wheelbases, the 10cm extra would make it extremely long.

But yes, with a 10 mm wheelbase extension you could just move the pillars a bit forward and change the front suspension geometry a little.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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aleks_ader
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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wesley123 wrote:10 cm seems like a crazy long Wheelbase extension. 10 mm seems far more likely. These cars already have really long wheelbases, the 10cm extra would make it extremely long.

But yes, with a 10 mm wheelbase extension you could just move the pillars a bit forward and change the front suspension geometry a little.
Also you made different aero efect on the car. All those little "microscopic" vortices on the macro scale of the car could change "completely" aero the the car. It hurts expecially rear of the car and all areas around it. Remember MCL, RB, Sauber (probably also Ferrari) they also had diverse problems whis micro aero behavior this year.

So you change behavior of tunnel exhaust =>edge of diffuzor, flor, side-pods =>coke-bottle etc. Usually if you made such changes in mid season you most have very good aero department, knowledge about how car will behave in the next part of the championship etc.. If you want made huge step ahead, you must had exact plan how to made little tweaks on the optimum level. I mean tweks like little tiny changes in shape of expecialy on the diferend edges of the FW, flow conditioners, FW pillars, bulges under nose etc. Before revolutionary 2014 you don't want broke the whole knowledge and understanding of the car witch they gathered until this season and also seasons before. Its all about evolution.

Whit last sentence in mind i also doubt it they will made such HUGE almost drastic changes. To some point i also contradict myself and agree for max. 10 mm changes, but that is maybe just normal evolutionary process. Maybe is just normal "Asian" tour routine procedure for team whit similar car mechanical and aero characteristics. Who knows? Maybe is true maybe dont.

Certain is that the silverstone slimm body pack reall work and also made car slightly more aggressive, more quick on 1 lap without broke apart Sunday performance and its durability abilities. Coke bottlle aere and whole start motor hole and also diffuzor allow to "breath" more air. They made better suction or if you like rear extraction => make more clean downforce (they build it whiteout such big drag penalty its almost otherwise). Of-course important is whole package!

This car from mechanical point of view made aero bids really efficient (if don't most efficient on the grid). I talk about extremely stiff front end under bracing circumstances, when we very often saw sparks underneath the car skid-plate. This tell me they really made almost perfect passive hydraulic system (in some aspects like Mercedes FRIC). This allow Lotus to run the most optimum or minimalistic ride height throw the whole car setup. If you made proper setup and aero work in the wind tunnel you could effectively build car around pre-steady philosophy. Sadly details i don't know i just expeel my and observation of all dear motosport technical enthusiasts.
"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver..." Ayrton Senna

anzx
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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So does this mean step forward, or complete disaster? I'm quite sceptic with such a big changes...

stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Hungary was our first race with the revised Pirelli tyre construction / compound combination; what have we learned from that?

Alan Permane: From Budapest we’ve learned that the ‘new’ tyres seem to suit our car relatively well. We can only assess their effect on performance relative to the competition around us, and I’d say we’ve not done too badly on that front. Mercedes for example seem to be very well suited to them, but Ferrari perhaps not so much. Although we were slightly quicker than them in both Germany and Hungary, ourselves and Red Bull look very evenly matched. I wouldn’t say they’ve changed our position too much.

Belgium presents a different challenge…

Alan Permane: Yes; a total contrast to Budapest in pretty much every area. Similar to Canada, Spa is a much lower downforce layout than most venues we visit with significantly lower temperatures; usually between fifteen and twenty degrees ambient. We will also be using the hard and medium compound tyres which – combined with the cooler climate – have not been our strength I think it’s fair to say. However, we have been putting in a lot of time and effort to get the harder tyres working better in lower temperatures, and I’m fairly confident we’ll head into this race remaining equally competitive.

Spa is a circuit which should surely suit the Device; is it on the radar for this weekend?

Alan Permane: Absolutely. We haven’t made a final decision yet as to whether it will be deployed, but we’ve been conducting a lot of simulation work with the concept to help clarify that decision and there’s a good chance we’ll see it make an appearance.

Coming off the back of the summer break, has there been any time for further upgrades to be prepared for this race?

Alan Permane: Although we have had a decent gap of four weeks between races, two of those are eliminated by the enforced factory shutdown. This still leaves two weeks of course; a period of time sufficient to bring a few new parts to the table as we would normally do in such a gap. The advantage we have with Spa being so close geographically is that we can be working on the cars back at Enstone right up until the Tuesday night before the race, and still have sufficient time to get them to the circuit ready for work on Thursday morning. We’ve got several updates coming up – both mechanical and aerodynamic – so we’re confident of making another step forward.
Full interview HERE
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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Kiril Varbanov
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Spa assembly. Can't really tell from this picture about the rumored 10 cm longer wheel-base.

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stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Belgium 2013 - Thursday (22.08.2013)

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via AMuS
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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turbof1
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Horizontal flow conditioners replaces with vertical ones. Quite big ones.
#AeroFrodo

stefan_
stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Now you can see two smaller horizontal ones, just below the mirror mounting point.
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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turbof1
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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stefan_ wrote:Now you can see two smaller horizontal ones, just below the mirror mounting point.
Those are new too (good spot); they are attached in front of the rear bulkhead. The original horizontal ones were hovering above the front end of the sidepods.
#AeroFrodo

stefan_
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Belgium 2013 - Thursday (22.08.2013)

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"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

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Blackout
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Lol; many of Lotus updates are so predictable. You should just look on the E20 updates they removed from the E21 before the start of the season and you can be sure that Lotus will put them back slowly and step by step...
Now they are more or less back to last year's configuraion http://www10.pic-upload.de/25.02.13/qovpznpil9f.jpg
Sometimes you must wait for months. Sometimes it even takes Enstone more than one season to copy the new fancy aero tricks that you see on the RBR, the Ferrari, the Mclaren and even on the Saubers, the Force india and the Toro rosso...

Huntresa
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Blackout wrote:Lol; many of Lotus updates are so predictable. You should just look on the E20 updates they removed from the E21 before the start of the season and you can be sure that Lotus will put them back slowly and step by step...
Now they are more or less back to last year's configuraion http://www10.pic-upload.de/25.02.13/qovpznpil9f.jpg
Sometimes you must wait for months. Sometimes it even takes Enstone more than one season to copy the new fancy aero tricks that you see on the RBR, the Ferrari, the Mclaren and even on the Saubers, the Force india and the Toro rosso...

Eh what ?

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turbof1
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Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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It is kind of strange indeed. Last year lotus started this trend of flow conditioners. They got quickly copied by mclaren. Mclaren then changed their concept similar to the one of sauber at this track. This year lotus took a bit of the mclaren solution, while mclaren reverted back to the vertical conditioners. And now lotus does the same. I don't think the teams have figured out the best solutions yet.

Those are quite high vertical conditioners though. They are getting more extreme with it.

Dunno why blackout would post a picture of the rear wing endplates from last year. We don't have a relevant shot of that yet.
#AeroFrodo