Fernando Alonso had all the cards on his hands and controlled the race simply, staying out of trouble and putting in a great pace. The title contenders ruined their chances for this race in the first corner. Kubica comes in second, just ahead of Raikkonen. Felipe Massa gets a single point.
Is there anything too complicated to understand? Logically not emotionally...ISLAMATRON wrote:They actually awarded Massa a win for a race he did not lead for even 1 sec, has that ever been done b4?
Shanghai skies couldn't be clearer than that.
The Kimi/Sutil incident was on the racetrack, the Alonso/Lewis incident was on the racetrack, the Kubica/Nakajima incident was on the racetrack. The Kimi/Lewis incident was in the pitlane after both Kimi and Kubica had stopped for a red light. See the difference?ISLAMATRON wrote:Not paying attention to weather conditions(I think the police call it "not excersizing due care") not watching a track safety device?, whats the difference? I still think that whole incident had something to do with KIMI's pit lane speed limiter light not flashing in the pit lane, go back and see that Kubika's & LH'S & Rosberg's are flashing but KIMI's isnt for some reason. Why was KIMI next to Kubica anyway? was he trying to pass him coming out of pit lane? I thought there was no passing behind the safety car? Should he have lined up behind him? And if not Why couldnt Hamilton Line up next to KIMI(there was planty of space)? What if he tried and misjudged it? Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.
Ray wrote:The Kimi/Sutil incident was on the racetrack, the Alonso/Lewis incident was on the racetrack, the Kubica/Nakajima incident was on the racetrack. The Kimi/Lewis incident was in the pitlane after both Kimi and Kubica had stopped for a red light. See the difference?ISLAMATRON wrote:Not paying attention to weather conditions(I think the police call it "not excersizing due care") not watching a track safety device?, whats the difference? I still think that whole incident had something to do with KIMI's pit lane speed limiter light not flashing in the pit lane, go back and see that Kubika's & LH'S & Rosberg's are flashing but KIMI's isnt for some reason. Why was KIMI next to Kubica anyway? was he trying to pass him coming out of pit lane? I thought there was no passing behind the safety car? Should he have lined up behind him? And if not Why couldnt Hamilton Line up next to KIMI(there was planty of space)? What if he tried and misjudged it? Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.
What was the difference between Massa/Sutil in Valencia & Massa/Sutil in Singapore? I'm just pointing out inconsistancies, and clearly there have been many. I can see where one can make that arguement about racetrack vs pitlane, but if they were so worried about pit lane safety why not penalize MAssa in Valencia, or give him a 2nd penalty for his fuel hose hitting a BMW pit lane worker? There decisions are clearly biased. The truth is the truth whether we choose to believe it or not, dont agree? than ask gravityRay wrote:The Kimi/Sutil incident was on the racetrack, the Alonso/Lewis incident was on the racetrack, the Kubica/Nakajima incident was on the racetrack. The Kimi/Lewis incident was in the pitlane after both Kimi and Kubica had stopped for a red light. See the difference?ISLAMATRON wrote:Not paying attention to weather conditions(I think the police call it "not excersizing due care") not watching a track safety device?, whats the difference? I still think that whole incident had something to do with KIMI's pit lane speed limiter light not flashing in the pit lane, go back and see that Kubika's & LH'S & Rosberg's are flashing but KIMI's isnt for some reason. Why was KIMI next to Kubica anyway? was he trying to pass him coming out of pit lane? I thought there was no passing behind the safety car? Should he have lined up behind him? And if not Why couldnt Hamilton Line up next to KIMI(there was planty of space)? What if he tried and misjudged it? Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.
Canda is clearly not one of those pitlanes, so then what is your point?jddh1 wrote: +1
ISLAMATRON, what you're trying to say is pretty silly actually. As Ray points out, the incident was in the pit lane.
If the pitlane is wide enough (and in some cases it is) then cars are allowed to drive on it parallel to each other. In those tracks with wide pitlanes you might catch a glimpse of some backmarkers driving right next to each other while exiting the pits. This does not happen when cars are entering as usually when they do enter they are right behind each other.
As Kimi and Robert proved, it was there at the end. Nothing wrong with having another start there from the pitlane in midrace. There are no rules that ban it.ISLAMATRON wrote:Canda is clearly not one of those pitlanes, so then what is your point?jddh1 wrote: +1
ISLAMATRON, what you're trying to say is pretty silly actually. As Ray points out, the incident was in the pit lane.
If the pitlane is wide enough (and in some cases it is) then cars are allowed to drive on it parallel to each other. In those tracks with wide pitlanes you might catch a glimpse of some backmarkers driving right next to each other while exiting the pits. This does not happen when cars are entering as usually when they do enter they are right behind each other.
You missed Kimi running in to the back of Lewis at Spa at the first corner.ISLAMATRON wrote:walter wrote:Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.
My personal belief is, in the pitlane or the track, the leader of the race always has the right of way. I believe that Sutil should have slowed to allow Massa out of his pit cleanly. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't. I'm not the judge of that because I wasn't in the pitlane nor driving Sutils car. So I can't say definitively that he could have, I just think he should have. Massas pit crew was at fault in Singapore though, I think so anyway. But to blame it solely on Massa is a mistake I think. The drivers go as soon as the light, or lollipop, is lifted/turned on. Like all drivers they go as quickly as possible, that's a fact of life in the pit lane. I think the mistake in Singapore has more to do with the Chief Mechanic more than anyone.ISLAMATRON wrote:What was the difference between Massa/Sutil in Valencia & Massa/Sutil in Singapore? I'm just pointing out inconsistancies, and clearly there have been many. I can see where one can make that arguement about racetrack vs pitlane, but if they were so worried about pit lane safety why not penalize MAssa in Valencia, or give him a 2nd penalty for his fuel hose hitting a BMW pit lane worker? There decisions are clearly biased. The truth is the truth whether we choose to believe it or not, dont agree? than ask gravityRay wrote:The Kimi/Sutil incident was on the racetrack, the Alonso/Lewis incident was on the racetrack, the Kubica/Nakajima incident was on the racetrack. The Kimi/Lewis incident was in the pitlane after both Kimi and Kubica had stopped for a red light. See the difference?ISLAMATRON wrote:Not paying attention to weather conditions(I think the police call it "not excersizing due care") not watching a track safety device?, whats the difference? I still think that whole incident had something to do with KIMI's pit lane speed limiter light not flashing in the pit lane, go back and see that Kubika's & LH'S & Rosberg's are flashing but KIMI's isnt for some reason. Why was KIMI next to Kubica anyway? was he trying to pass him coming out of pit lane? I thought there was no passing behind the safety car? Should he have lined up behind him? And if not Why couldnt Hamilton Line up next to KIMI(there was planty of space)? What if he tried and misjudged it? Just like KIMI misjudging the weather conditions in Monaco, Its all arbitrary, ramming someone from behind should be penealised regardless, LH, should have got one in Bahrain when he hit Alonso, KIMI should have got one in Monaco & LH should have got one in Canada. r none of them should have been penalised. No bias, just consistancy, that all I am asking for.
I whole heartedly disagree that the leader "allways has the right of way"... this is race car driving not a crosswalk in west podunk Iowa. Sutil is racing for positions just like Massa was, furthermore he has every right to unlap himself if that was the case. The rules clearly state that any driver released out of his pit must do so in a safe manner, that includes yielding to any traffic already in the "fast" pit lane. How could anyone say that Sutil should have yielded way to Massa... to me that is Tifosi arrogance at its highest. Yes the blame lands squarely on the team but we know that Massa as the driver should have been penalised for it both in VAlencia & Singapore.Ray wrote:My personal belief is, in the pitlane or the track, the leader of the race always has the right of way. I believe that Sutil should have slowed to allow Massa out of his pit cleanly. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't. I'm not the judge of that because I wasn't in the pitlane nor driving Sutils car. So I can't say definitively that he could have, I just think he should have. Massas pit crew was at fault in Singapore though, I think so anyway. But to blame it solely on Massa is a mistake I think. The drivers go as soon as the light, or lollipop, is lifted/turned on. Like all drivers they go as quickly as possible, that's a fact of life in the pit lane. I think the mistake in Singapore has more to do with the Chief Mechanic more than anyone.
Ray wrote:The fuel hose hitting a mechanic and the issuing of a penalty is a moot point to me. Him having to wait at the end of the pits until the mechanics could safely get to his car and remove it was punishment enough in my eyes. (I could get real dumb and say there should be a penalty for BMW shocking one of their mechanics so bad he went to the hospital.) Both times an error by the teams resulted in the injuring of a mechanic. He waited forever at the end of pitlane, so I don't see how a penalty would even matter. Sometimes the non-call is the right thing to do. The stewards sometimes have to sit back and let the teams and drivers cause their own havoc and screw themselves out of a good finish or a win. Penalties shouldn't be given out for every single little thing. A perfect example is Massa passing Webber at Fuji. He didn't endanger anyone and they were racing or God's sake! Everyone bitches and moans about boring racing and no overtaking, and then turn right around and say Massa deserves a penalty for doing just that. Racing! If I were to follow your train of thought and assume that there is Ferrari bias, then why was Lewis not given a penalty for forcing Timo off track at Monza? I don't believe he deserved one for that, he was racing. Maybe he should get a warning from Charlie for it, but don't penalize them for racing for position. I think that neither of them deserve a penalty for either infraction, nothing came of either move and it actually provided some excitement. Having said all that, had Hamiltons move on Timo resulted in him spinning out or hitting the wall then he should get a penalty for it just the same when Massa got one for hitting Hamilton. We have to use penalties in moderation, otherwise it looks like the races are fixed.
ISLAMATRON wrote:I whole heartedly disagree that the leader "allways has the right of way"... this is race car driving not a crosswalk in west podunk Iowa. Sutil is racing for positions just like Massa was, furthermore he has every right to unlap himself if that was the case. The rules clearly state that any driver released out of his pit must do so in a safe manner, that includes yielding to any traffic already in the "fast" pit lane. How could anyone say that Sutil should have yielded way to Massa... to me that is Tifosi arrogance at its highest. Yes the blame lands squarely on the team but we know that Massa as the driver should have been penalised for it both in VAlencia & Singapore.Ray wrote:My personal belief is, in the pitlane or the track, the leader of the race always has the right of way. I believe that Sutil should have slowed to allow Massa out of his pit cleanly. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't. I'm not the judge of that because I wasn't in the pitlane nor driving Sutils car. So I can't say definitively that he could have, I just think he should have. Massas pit crew was at fault in Singapore though, I think so anyway. But to blame it solely on Massa is a mistake I think. The drivers go as soon as the light, or lollipop, is lifted/turned on. Like all drivers they go as quickly as possible, that's a fact of life in the pit lane. I think the mistake in Singapore has more to do with the Chief Mechanic more than anyone.
Ray wrote:The fuel hose hitting a mechanic and the issuing of a penalty is a moot point to me. Him having to wait at the end of the pits until the mechanics could safely get to his car and remove it was punishment enough in my eyes. (I could get real dumb and say there should be a penalty for BMW shocking one of their mechanics so bad he went to the hospital.) Both times an error by the teams resulted in the injuring of a mechanic. He waited forever at the end of pitlane, so I don't see how a penalty would even matter. Sometimes the non-call is the right thing to do. The stewards sometimes have to sit back and let the teams and drivers cause their own havoc and screw themselves out of a good finish or a win. Penalties shouldn't be given out for every single little thing. A perfect example is Massa passing Webber at Fuji. He didn't endanger anyone and they were racing or God's sake! Everyone bitches and moans about boring racing and no overtaking, and then turn right around and say Massa deserves a penalty for doing just that. Racing! If I were to follow your train of thought and assume that there is Ferrari bias, then why was Lewis not given a penalty for forcing Timo off track at Monza? I don't believe he deserved one for that, he was racing. Maybe he should get a warning from Charlie for it, but don't penalize them for racing for position. I think that neither of them deserve a penalty for either infraction, nothing came of either move and it actually provided some excitement. Having said all that, had Hamiltons move on Timo resulted in him spinning out or hitting the wall then he should get a penalty for it just the same when Massa got one for hitting Hamilton. We have to use penalties in moderation, otherwise it looks like the races are fixed.
Hamilton, was spun by Massa(and this was deemed and clearly was an illigal move) but yet was still penalised for the first corner "incident" (unfairly IMO). Moot points dont exist when one is truly looking for consistancy and fairness, which are necessary for a sport. As of late F1 resembles more so WWF wrestling than auto racing. And yes it is very dumb of you to bring up a BMW mechanic being shocked in testing, should Ferrari be banned for someone slipping on a banana peel at the factory? Let's stick to the discussion please.
A penalty would have matteredlot becuz even though he waited all that time he did not go 1 lap down, so he was able to catch up to the back of the field, furthermore he was able to come back into the pits and add fuel & change tires without losing any further positions or a lap. HAd another safety car come out at the exact time he could have been catapulted to the front just lIke Alonso was. All after hitting a BMW mechanic with his fuel hose, something he should have been black flagged for. You may not watch much american racing, but this same thing happened a couple years ago in cleveland when Paul Tracy ran into the back of 3 other cars and caused so many yellow flags that he was able to take advantage of the fuel strategy and win.
Penalties should be in moderation, but even more important is that they should be consistant, or else the ligitamacy of F1 dssappears.
Isnt there a rule that states if you hit another team's mechanic you are black flagged and out of the race? or is that another series?flynfrog wrote:so what would the grounds of the penalty be. So the fuel rig broke I don't believe there is a rule that states if you drive off with the fuel rig its a penalty.
Why should a bad pit stop mean you should lose all chances of losing the race
I cant think of a penalty this year I would have called. Most of the racing incidents are just that racing. F1 is starting to look like the 4th quarter of a basketball game where the teams cant go 30 seconds without a foul and a free throw
I say let them race
And what do you have against Iowa?
ISLAMATRON wrote:Isnt there a rule that states if you hit another team's mechanic you are black flagged and out of the race? or is that another series?flynfrog wrote:so what would the grounds of the penalty be. So the fuel rig broke I don't believe there is a rule that states if you drive off with the fuel rig its a penalty.
Why should a bad pit stop mean you should lose all chances of losing the race
I cant think of a penalty this year I would have called. Most of the racing incidents are just that racing. F1 is starting to look like the 4th quarter of a basketball game where the teams cant go 30 seconds without a foul and a free throw
I say let them race
And what do you have against Iowa?
I'm not asking for moe penalties, I am asking for consistancy, and if more penalties come from that than so be it.
I hate the way the NBA is officiating now, not even 30 seconds, we'de be lucky to see 24 seconds of good basketball at any time of the game without a whistle, it sucks.
Iowa is cold and dreary and it aint Miami, and they will probly beat Michigan this year, but who wont? Thats all I got against Iowa.
I am also a Michigan Grad(enginering '01), and yes they will probly lose to Iowa, & State and I cant even imagine the beat down they gonna catch from Ohio state. I really hope they get better cuz I cant even turn on my TV after noon on saturdays anymore. Snow 6 months out the year sucks, thats why I moved back to Miami, only place in the US i'd ever live... except for Hawaii.jddh1 wrote:wo wo wo wo.... hold your horses there...how the hell did you go from hating on Iowa to Michigan? As a Michigan grad I cannot let you pass with this travesty. First you complain about the penalties, and claim they should be consistent. Well, we're agreeing with you on that but you don't seem to see that. Then you pick cherries for penalties given or not given. And that's just plain silly. Then you hate on Iowa and I've never been there but I don't think it's that bad; I mean, what's wrong with having snow and bug free months? Something you don't have in Miami. And then you move on to hate on Michigan. Now I know they suck this year. I was the first one to say that if they got 5 wins I'd be happy. But why hate on them? You know, you might be just jealous we kicked some Florida behind last year. I'm just saying don't talk smack about them now that every one knows how they play because when they get better next season they'll give you a real reason to hate them.
Ok, peace out. Islamatron just needs to relax, have a cup of tea and try to look at things with less subjectivity.
