Rule Interpretation - Double deck diffusers

[pitlaneimmigrant]

And does anyone think that Alonso is kicking himself for NOT going to Honda this year? I believe that I said it would be his best move when it was discussed here last year, and it is great to see that it would have been his best move after all...

There is NO WAY that anyone could have predicted the Brawn car would be as quick as it is. This is/was Honda we are talking about, who for the last 3 years have shifted their focus to the next years car early on and STILL produced a lemon.
I guess all it needed was someone who knew how to design a good car and how to run a team to get in there and MAKE things happen. It still would have been a huge gamble to join Honda at the end of the year especially after Fernando scored more points in the last 7 races than anyone else.

Back on topic, I imagine the other teams are already working on diffusers based on the Brawn et al interpretation of the rules.
Although the rules are laid out clearly there is room for interpretation, if in doubt the teams can get clarification from Charlie Whiting, however there is room for interpretation in this process as well as the answer you gets depends on how you phrase the question!

[sticky667]

i find it funny how everyone blames bernie and max for the scandals we have in F1 year after year. this entire diffuser debacle was initiated by the teams, not FOM.

wake up people! also, why have RBR protested and not STR!
technically, as a "separate team", STR would've had to file a protest also.

[Dukeage]

GrandPrix.com reported that McLaren have got a slightly double decker diffuser that they could run.

[SoliRossi]

Sanity rules.



It's rumoured that this is the case, along with the design of their gearbox.

Can we discuss this more please...

I dont see why either the gearbox or the rocker placement would effect airflow from under the car(which is a standard height for all the cars) towards the rear crash structure.

Im equally interested mate, can someone elaborate where the air travels from the floor to the difusser? ie you would imagine all teams floors are the same height from the road and the rain light is the same height from the road as well, so surley its a matter of creating a piece of bodywork (difusser) that is slightly higher.

Also the fact that the RB5 is the longest wheel base car would suggest that they would have more room to incorporate the extra cavity for the air flow.

I could be missing something really obvious here but any info would be appreciated.

If someone has a cross section drawing of how the difusser and floor integrate would be great..and also how it would be on the rb5 as opposed to the Brawn.

[machin]

If someone has a cross section drawing of how the difusser and floor integrate would be great

Yeah, I don't get it either.. where does the upper deck get fed with air from? A slice down the centre of one of these diffusers would be very interesting... anyone fancy sketching something up?

[F1DanBrits]

did people hear that then on bbc1, new diffuser for McLaren arrived today, no pics yet

[Michiba]

Brawn GP BGP001 Diffuser:

This should give you a bit of an idea of where the air comes from, though a drawing would be better.

[myurr]

i find it funny how everyone blames bernie and max for the scandals we have in F1 year after year. this entire diffuser debacle was initiated by the teams, not FOM.

wake up people! also, why have RBR protested and not STR!
technically, as a "separate team", STR would've had to file a protest also.

Hi Max, how are you doing? Or are you Bernie?

The reason everyone is complaining is not because there's been a dispute about the diffusers but because the FIA's procedures have turned it into a debacle. If there was an official body that could provide a ruling outside race weekends then this entire situation could have been settled in January. Instead we're two and a half months down the road before the teams can officially get a ruling on what is and is not legal.

It is also the FIA that writes the rules, thus in this case leaving in a loophole from previous years that has led to different interpretations.

So in this intance I feel it is perfectly correct that Max is getting the blame. He is, after all, responsible for the FIA and it is the FIA that has fallen short in its operational responsibilities.

[Crabbia]

we all know that the Max and Bernie have convoluted logic when it comes to rule interpretation, my guess is the downfall of the 'ingenious 3' could be that they are to ingenious...

The diffusers cause too much of a performance gain. already the friday practise times match those of last year, and then in 2 weeks time if they are declared legal for sure you can rest assured mcl ferrari and BMW will show up at the next race with a double decker and lap times will drop further.

Now take into account M&B's policy of slowing the cars down whenever possible and they might just side with the simple diffuser designs.

Also if the standard diffuser teams are wiley they will make a stink about dev cost going through the roof from having to design a new diffuser, and the avenues it opens up for development, and with M&B wanting to look as frugal as possible, they might just win their case.

this is all conjecture but its what i think might happen in the comming weeks. i'm not so sure its as simple as, 'they're legal cause the stewards said so'... it seldom is in F1...

sticky667 wrote:
i find it funny how everyone blames bernie and max for the scandals we have in F1 year after year. this entire diffuser debacle was initiated by the teams, not FOM.

FOM and FIA created this by not being decicive on the interpretation of the rules, max just sat back and said, 'it will come to a head in melbourne'... but he is the person who is supposed to clear up contraversy, its like blaming kindergarden kids for eating glue when the teacher sits back and says 'its ok, they'll crap it out tomorrow'...

[Longley]

When you look at these pictures from f1today.nl you can see where brawn and williams get the extra air for their diffusers

Williams

Brawn



Not so easy to copy I think

[machin]

This should give you a bit of an idea of where the air comes from, though a drawing would be better.

Hhhmmmm.... it appears from this that the lower deck of the diffuser is "floating"... i.e that it does not connect to the floor at its leading edge... ????

I'll try and draw how I think it is arranged with characters:-


/
_________/ /

So there's a gap between the blue (lower deck) and the red (upper deck)??? and the lower deck doesn't connect to the main body of the floor (black)?????

[machin]

OK... that didn't work... the upper red lin should connect to the lower red line!!!!

[myurr]

Edit: That first sentence is referring to the Brawn and Williams solutions for feeding air to the underside of the car.

Yeah, they're really quite ingenious the way they work. That's why I think McLaren will improve a bit with the new diffuser but not be right at the sharp end. I would expect a similar solution on the McLaren within the next few races.

Like him or not, James Allen makes a good point about the protesting teams on his blog - that the teams that are protesting cannot really go and add a twin deck diffuser until after the appeal as it's difficult for them to say "This is illegal" when others can say "well why are you running it then?".

So it doesn't look like Ferrari et al will have a solution for a couple of races at least.

Finally I have a new (well... adjusted) theory about McLaren. Initially when they first ran the car it had respectable pace. They then made some noises about working on a new floor, diffuser, rear wing interaction. Then the pace evapourated. Now they're starting to introduce new parts.

I'm wondering if they made a judgement call after their launch but early on compared to Ferrari and the others that the twin deck diffuser was the way to go, possibly when they first got involved with Brawn and realised how quick that car was shaping up to be. They've decided to sacrifice pace early on to concentrate on making the necessary changes to the rear of the car.

[F1ParkingSpace]

Finally I have a new (well... adjusted) theory about McLaren. Initially when they first ran the car it had respectable pace. They then made some noises about working on a new floor, diffuser, rear wing interaction. Then the pace evapourated. Now they're starting to introduce new parts.

I'm wondering if they made a judgement call after their launch but early on compared to Ferrari and the others that the twin deck diffuser was the way to go, possibly when they first got involved with Brawn and realised how quick that car was shaping up to be. They've decided to sacrifice pace early on to concentrate on making the necessary changes to the rear of the car.

That would make sense, especially given the pictures we've seen of a Brawn-esque diffuser on the McLaren with the top section blanked off.

[joseff]

Hhhmmmm.... it appears from this that the lower deck of the diffuser is "floating"... i.e that it does not connect to the floor at its leading edge... ????

I believe your interpretation would be illegal. The hole you see in the Brawn diffuser above is actually a vertical vent between the central raised section and the lower/main channel. This way, when viewed from the bottom the floor is perfectly continuous within the diffuser area as seen from the bottom, as required by the rules.

The extra performance comes from the increased cross section of the diffuser exit, as the crash structure channel now sucks more air from the lower channel. In other words, the lower "regular" channels suck air from under the car, the upper channel sucks air from the lower channels by way of vents on their sides.