Belgian GP 2008

[Project Four]

Lots of heat in this thread and absolutely no light.

I do commend those who posted the following:

after what happened last year McLaren should expect to be in the spotlight on every single corner of every single race. they should expect to get the harshest possible penalty for the minutest of mistakes, in every single corner of every single race. and this is what they get.

Why, I always though that the whole idea of sport was the everyone was treated fairly and that the brighest and / or the best were the ones that eventually came out on top and become the winners.

Shouldn't sport be fair with all competitors treated fairly and equally and not one team / driver / competitor treated differently because of their past actions or for what they bring to the sport ? ? ?

[Moanlower]

Here's an onboard video of Lewis cutting the chicane..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M

[timbo]

Why, I always though that the whole idea of sport was the everyone was treated fairly and that the brighest and / or the best were the ones that eventually came out on top and become the winners.

You are too idealistic. This is not how society as a whole works.
In addition, there sre many people who think that last year McLaren received inappropriate penalty. Still in favor of the sport they received what they received.
Also, it is second LH's accident with cut track this year, while I can remember if any other driver was involved in such accident this year at all. Don't you think that if something happen on the regular road and police will invistigate that, they would make a disicion based on previous history of the drivers.

[West]

It's been said before but that was a half-assed attempt by Hamilton to let Kimi regain position. He was following the letter of the law, if not the spirit. He happened to do it before La Source too, where it was easy to make up speed again (as Raikkonen has to slow down as well).

[Project Four]

Why, I always though that the whole idea of sport was the everyone was treated fairly and that the brighest and / or the best were the ones that eventually came out on top and become the winners.

You are too idealistic. This is not how society as a whole works.

Yes, Timbo you are correct, I am and have also been too idealistic. I can remember as a young innocent child, nearly thirty years ago, watching in awe as two talented drivers went wheel to wheel, locking wheels, banging wheels, using all the road and more as they RACED. On that day Villeneuve won the battle and came second in the race, beating Arnoux into third.

Yesterday again I was on the edge of my seat as again two mega-talented drivers fought for the race win. How Hamilton closed down on Raikkonen on worn dry weather tires and on a wet track and how they battled together was what the pinnacle of motor sport should be about, not stupid penalties and non-equal treatment.

Hamilton did not gain anytime or even slipstream Raikkonen after going off road, he just totally out-braked him going into La Source, he was at the time mega-faster than him and gaining time everywhere around the track.

Personally if this penalty stands, then the race stewards should hold a press conference at the Italian GP in front of the worlds press, and be questioned as to why they reached their decision.

Long term the race stewards should be people whom have some experience of racing (may be past drivers) not people whom can wear the best blazers and the stewards should be the same people for every race and not change on a race-by-race basis at least then we may have some consistency.

Lastly, going back to France 1979, if these idiots had been in charge then and Villeneuve and Arnoux had both been punished then at least one young child’s love of F1 would have ended there and then.

[modbaraban]

Kimi passing Lewis for the second time this lap and the Williams under a yellow flag.

OMG!

Is this the first race you have ever seen?

[timbo]

Hamilton did not gain anytime or even slipstream Raikkonen after going off road, he just totally out-braked him going into La Source, he was at the time mega-faster than him and gaining time everywhere around the track.

Watch onboard video on the previous page. Also read what LH himself said "Firstly, what I did, I'd basically taken a short-cut, so I couldn't just accelerate straight from there and keep going, I had to wait - he was in my blind spot - I had to wait until I could see him. I didn't want to wait until he'd flown past because we were still racing. Eventually I could see him accelerating and I knew, OK, this is alright, so I began to accelerate but slowly. I don't believe I was full throttle, I was waiting for him to accelerate past which he did."
Personally I think what he did was accelerating out of the corner as fast as he could, and it was only because of better grip on KR's line that he pass ahead. There's also video of Alonso some pages back who received a penalty in similar situation.

Personally if this penalty stands, then the race stewards should hold a press conference at the Italian GP in front of the worlds press, and be questioned as to why they reached their decision.

Absolutely. I also think that stewards' desicions must be published with all supporting information. "Gaining unfair advantage" is not enough.

Long term the race stewards should be people whom have some experience of racing (may be past drivers) not people whom can wear the best blazers and the stewards should be the same people for every race and not change on a race-by-race basis at least then we may have some consistency.

Agreed.
However I'd be against former drivers as they have too much connections in F1 circus and I'm afraid it would be impossible for them to be unbiased.

[andartop]

[/quote]

Why, I always though that the whole idea of sport was the everyone was treated fairly and that the brighest and / or the best were the ones that eventually came out on top and become the winners.

Shouldn't sport be fair with all competitors treated fairly and equally and not one team / driver / competitor treated differently because of their past actions or for what they bring to the sport ? ? ?[/quote]

i absolutely agree it is not fair, and have said so. it is the FIA's fault for wanting to punish McLaren hard but not willing to lose all the cash McLaren and its fans bring in to the championship. if the FIA wanted to go harsh on them they should have excluded them and their drivers from the championship altogether, both 2007 and 2008. remember how long did Toyota take to return to the WRC after they were caught cheating? but is not cheating that the FIA wants to punish, but McLaren's reaction to being caught cheating. they are setting an example for the rest of the teams, if you re caught and you publicly apologise straight away it is all right, but if you try to screw with us we ll screw you up back, again and again until you go down on your knees. i do not agree with that attitude, but i really think McLaren should have been aware of it by now, and thus be more cautious, that they ll be in the spotlight for the duration of the championship, and maybe even next year as well. just look where Michelin ended up after attempting to blackmail FIA in that farse of Indianapolis GP. all i m saying is simply that ferrari might as well have nothing to do with it (or BMW for that matter), it's just a thing between Macca and FIA.
bottom line: if McLaren seriously believe the FIA is not going to let them win then why keep racing?

[Shaddock]

Kimi passing Lewis for the second time this lap and the Williams under a yellow flag.

OMG!

Is this the first race you have ever seen?

I didn't watch it through rose (or scarlett) tinted glasses.



Kimi missed this corner, these things happen in the wet. Kimi run's into the back of the Force India at Monaco, again in the wet. No I don't think any of these incidents deserved any intervention by the stewards. Allowances need to be made when racing hard in difficult conditions.

The facts are the facts. Lewis was a close behind Kimi going into the Bus Stop and he was going into La Source. No advantage no disadvantage.

[mx_tifoso]

Quote from Felipe Massa;

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter."

I will repeat this once again in case not everyone knows of it, please aim your [respectful] comments towards the content of the post, and not towards the actual poster.

[Belatti]

Quote from Felipe Massa;

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter."

I will repeat this once again in case not everyone knows of it, please aim your [respectful] comments towards the content of the post, and not towards the actual poster.

I think Felipe says that because its simply how he needs things to be.
He is wrong when he says LH passed KR "on the very short straight that follows it" becaused LH let KR pass in that straight and then outbraked him in La Source.

[myurr]

Quote from Felipe Massa;

Incidents like this have often been discussed in the official driver briefings when it has been made absolutely clear that anyone cutting a chicane has to fully restore the position and also any other eventual advantage gained.

"If Lewis had taken the chicane correctly, he would never have been able to pass Kimi on the very short straight that follows it. That was my immediate opinion after seeing the replay. Maybe if Lewis had waited and tried to pass on the next straight, that would have been a different matter."

I will repeat this once again in case not everyone knows of it, please aim your [respectful] comments towards the content of the post, and not towards the actual poster.

Is this the same Felipe Massa who is the biggest beneficiary of the ruling and who believes that back markers should wait queuing in the pit lane whilst he breezes through?

[modbaraban]

Kimi passing Lewis for the second time this lap and the Williams under a yellow flag.

OMG!

Is this the first race you have ever seen?

I didn't watch it through rose (or scarlett) tinted glasses.

I'm not a Ferrari fan, mind you.

You mentioned Kimi overtaking McLaren and Williams under yellow

1. The Williams car spun off causing the yellow, so it wasn't racing, and it also was being lapped.

2. The McLaren was out of the track and thus wasn't racing and could be passed by under yellow.

Overtaking you say? I think you don't know a thing about racing, fanboy.

[Rob W]

This is a pretty shameful episode in F1 really. The fact that the ruling nots/explanation weren't released immediately shows it. Anything they come up with now will really be written by the group, with advisers trying to justify it after-the-fact.

R

[donskar]

Project Four wrote:

Why, I always though that the whole idea of sport was the everyone was treated fairly and that the brighest and / or the best were the ones that eventually came out on top and become the winners.

Yes, the brightest/best usually do win. But in F1, being the best/brightest in politicking, PR, and backroom negotiating counts for a great deal.

Shouldn't sport be fair with all competitors treated fairly and equally and not one team / driver / competitor treated differently because of their past actions or for what they bring to the sport ? ? ?
In a perfect world . . .

Past actions are ALWAYS taken into account in every aspect of human life. You lend someone money and they do not return it. You take that into account when they ask for another loan. Someone admits to cheating one season; you watch them a little more closely the next season. Soemone is credited with bringing more glamor, sponsors, attention, and MONEY into the sport than any other; you bend for them.