German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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modbaraban wrote: PS: Adrian wasn't penalized due to FIA Force-india influence :mrgreen:
..And let's not even mention the FIA Brawn GP influence which resulted in Webber's penalty..
:lol:
Imagine what would be said if it was LH in Webber's place and Massa or Kimi in Rubens'!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Yeah.. but Lewis blew it big time!! I mean he should have braked much much earlier! Or even reenter the track at a better angle. Waste of upgrades!! He will get a win this year though.

On the outburst of Barichello.. I would do the same but not in front of the cameras.. In front of BRAWN!! All Brawn wanted to do was to extend Jenson's lead as much as possible (he will need it).
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ISLAMATRON
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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n smikle wrote:Yeah.. but Lewis blew it big time!! I mean he should have braked much much earlier! Or even reenter the track at a better angle. Waste of upgrades!! He will get a win this year though.

On the outburst of Barichello.. I would do the same but not in front of the cameras.. In front of BRAWN!! All Brawn wanted to do was to extend Jenson's lead as much as possible (he will need it).
Lewis didnt really blow it, his tire was already cut down when he got onto the brakes, but it was probly Lewis's fault for slightly moving over into Webber's line but Lewis was 99% past him. The only reason Lewis went off at turn 1 was because his tire was already down, he would have made the corner otherwise.

Anyone have a video or transcript over Rubens outburst?... honestly I can understand his frustration with the team, they really do make alot of mistakes, but at the same time so has he.

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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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It was a calm outburst. It was fun to watch though. Barichello fell right into the media trap.
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dave34m
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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How is it that people think that Webbers penalty wasn't justified. He hit 2 cars before the first corner.
Good recovery from a very poor start but he did deserve the penalty, IMO

andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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ISLAMATRON wrote:The only reason Lewis went off at turn 1 was because his tire was already down, he would have made the corner otherwise.
I'm not so sure about that, he really seemed to enter the corner quite fast.
So, there are three possible scenarios: a)He would still manage to make the corner, in which case it really would have been an amazing start, b)He would crash with someone, as he did, and ruin his and/or someone else's race, or c) He would still miss the corner and either come back right in front or behind Kimi, in which case he would have lost a couple of places, or crash with someone on his way back in..
The thing is, as a former WDC who's having a shitty season and gets for the first time a chance to score some serious points, he ought to have been more careful.. Sato kamikaze moves might be spectacular, but hardly ever rewarding, unless if you're playing on your playstation where you can just hit the restart button!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Great win by Webber, although the penalty was well deserved, now since he has a win to his credit he is automatically a good F1 driver instead of a has been like he was in Silverstone.

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A nice pic of Mark Webber's signature on Rubens sidepod for those of you who dont think Webber deserved the penalty.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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andartop wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:The only reason Lewis went off at turn 1 was because his tire was already down, he would have made the corner otherwise.
I'm not so sure about that, he really seemed to enter the corner quite fast.
So, there are three possible scenarios: a)He would still manage to make the corner, in which case it really would have been an amazing start, b)He would crash with someone, as he did, and ruin his and/or someone else's race, or c) He would still miss the corner and either come back right in front or behind Kimi, in which case he would have lost a couple of places, or crash with someone on his way back in..
The thing is, as a former WDC who's having a shitty season and gets for the first time a chance to score some serious points, he ought to have been more careful.. Sato kamikaze moves might be spectacular, but hardly ever rewarding, unless if you're playing on your playstation where you can just hit the restart button!
Do you actually watch the race or do you just make things up as you go along? Whatever suits your tifosi biased views I'm sure. A couple pics for you to examine.
Image
Image

He was not going so fast that he couldnt have made the corner, even with a flat tire he didnt go that far off. He didnt crash with anyone, Webber's front wing endtip slighty went into his right rear.

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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Here is the story with Lewis' incident.
Lewis made a good KERS-assisted start from fifth on the grid, quickly vaulted Sebastian Vettel and ran around the outside of duelling leaders, Rubens Barrichello and Mark Webber. Turning into the first corner, he was snagged by Webber’s front wing, the contact puncturing his right-rear tyre and necessitating a first-lap pitstop.

Heavily fuelled and switched to a two-stint strategy, he was relegated to the back and drove a lonely race to 18th, unable to perform competitively owing to suspected damage to the rear – likely caused by the flailing rubber – which negatively affected handling and tyre-wear.

“My race was effectively over at Turn One,” Lewis said. “I had quite a good launch down to Turn One, and I was braking when I felt a tap from the rear and went straight on. I think the flat tyre had damaged the rear floor and it felt like I was out there driving on ice. I suggested to the team that we save the engine and gearbox for the future because there’s a lot more potential ahead of us than we’d anticipated before this weekend.

“But that’s racing and we’ll move on. The best thing about this weekend was that our updates were successful. The team has done a fantastic job over the last few weeks and I’m already looking forward to the next race.”


Martin Whitmarsh, Team principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes:

“Lewis and Heikki both made great starts, assisted by KERS hybrid. In fact, Lewis could have taken the lead at the first corner if he hadn’t been hit by Mark, which collision resulted in a puncture. That was a great shame, because his car was competitive here and I’m therefore sure he would have been able to score well with it. More frustratingly still, after having to make an unscheduled pit stop as a result of that puncture, he emerged in the worst possible track position: at the front of the field. He therefore had to observe the blue flags and allow all the front-runners past, causing him to lose further time.
Oh well that's racing. Better luck next time.
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ISLAMATRON
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Good news, no penalty for Kimi, it did seem like a racing incident.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76937

But just one thing, Why would the race directors say that a driver coming out of the pits should have right of way? That just goes against all common sense and contrary to any road rules in similar situations such as merging into a highway... completely asinine. Unless of course the speed announcers got that part all wrong.

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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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Martin Whitmarsh, Team principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes:

“Lewis and Heikki both made great starts, assisted by KERS hybrid. In fact, Lewis could have taken the lead at the first corner if he hadn’t been hit by Mark, which collision resulted in a puncture. That was a great shame, because his car was competitive here and I’m therefore sure he would have been able to score well with it. More frustratingly still, after having to make an unscheduled pit stop as a result of that puncture, he emerged in the worst possible track position: at the front of the field. He therefore had to observe the blue flags and allow all the front-runners past, causing him to lose further time.

This blue flag rule is stupid as well, I understand moving over if you have already have been lapped by the leader but a driver should be allowed to fight as hard as possible(no egregious blocking) to stay on the lead lap. But Lewis was good to let his teammate by who was being hounded by Button. But to no avail as Kovi had a stupid fuel/tire strategy, pitting on lap 15 when he should have been pitting around lap 24 or so. Why start the race on heavy fuel and soft tires? It makes absolutely no sense. Had he started on the prime tires, and with his great start and Webber's penalty and Rubens & Lewis's tire problems he really could have easily got a podium.

andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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ISLAMATRON wrote: Do you actually watch the race or do you just make things up as you go along? Whatever suits your tifosi biased views I'm sure. A couple pics for you to examine.
Image
Image

He was not going so fast that he couldnt have made the corner, even with a flat tire he didnt go that far off. He didnt crash with anyone, Webber's front wing endtip slighty went into his right rear.

How would my "tifosi bias" affect my view on an incident involving a Red Bull and a McLaren car, I cannot see.
How can a couple of pics prove whether Lewis would or would not have made the corner, I cannot see either.
Have to admit though that you are right, I shouldn't have used the word "crash" but "contact". It seemed to me that LH closed in on Mark Webber which resulted in his rear right tire "contacting" with Webber's front wing. Maybe my Ferrari biased vision gets poor when the red cars are further back. A video of the incident might be helpful.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

andartop
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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ISLAMATRON wrote:Why start the race on heavy fuel and soft tires? It makes absolutely no sense. Had he started on the prime tires, and with his great start and Webber's penalty and Rubens & Lewis's tire problems he really could have easily got a podium.
My thoughts exactly about Kimi and Massa at the beginning of the race. Massa did make it to the podium though, despite being heavily fueled and on the soft tires.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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andartop wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:Why start the race on heavy fuel and soft tires? It makes absolutely no sense. Had he started on the prime tires, and with his great start and Webber's penalty and Rubens & Lewis's tire problems he really could have easily got a podium.
My thoughts exactly about Kimi and Massa at the beginning of the race. Massa did make it to the podium though, despite being heavily fueled and on the soft tires.

Well Ferrari must have known they could make their tires last till lap 24 & 25 when their drivers came in, on strategy. Although they were lapping quite slowly at the end of that first stint, they had both Brawns stuck behind them so that helped them make up time. Excellent race by Massa, maybe only second best to Rosberg or Webber.

Michiba
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Re: German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

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what's up with Vettel now? He's not the same exhuberant personality he was last year. Looks like he was sulking during the post race interview, and couldn't even crack a smile when Massa was joking with him.

I'm not trying to 'hate' on him, but last year, they were marketing him as being different to all the other prima donna drivers in the paddock, but seems like he's changed his attitude now. Has he become an Alonso?