2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Andres125sx]

I dont know if this has posted before
Elkann

I am addressing the fans, F1 enthusiasts and sportsmen who carry Ferrari in their hearts. The season is developing below our expectations, we apologize for some bold statements referring to the beginning of the year. We hadn’t realized that it took more time to put the pieces of the puzzle back together. The ownership, represented by me, offers full support to Frédéric who is reorganizing the team in a process that will lead us to experience difficult months also due to an ineffective car

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... na-23.html
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... rosso.html

Shocking! At least they have taken the first step to recovery - admit to yourself you have a fundamental problem. Now they just need to admit to themselves that problem is tyre management within suspension design. It's not to late for them to try moving the top front suspension arm further up, as Mercedes did. Clearly, it was a very positive step.

so you´ve gone from laughing on me because I said it was a tire temperature problem , to say yourself it was a tire managment problem.

Think about this next time you´re tempted to laugh on me

[Vanja #66]

Think about this next time you´re tempted to laugh on me

Andres, if we are to continue with any meaningful discussion you really need to dial down mixing apples with oranges...

[Xyz22]

At the very least, why wouldn't have have gone Mediums? Hard, Soft... then Hard?

... and according to the telecast, it seemed to say they put him on Old Hards (the ones he used in his first stint!)... if that indeed was the case and it wasn't just a mistake... even more reason why didn't they bother with the Mediums?!

This time i have to say the strategists are not at fault because the car is simply unpredictable. They have absolutely no idea how the car will perform with a specific compound in relation to the phase of the race. Leclerc was forced to pit very early despite having hard tyres because they were not working at all. According to him, the car was not turning at all, being extremely front limited and this is also the reason why he asked for softs at the end. Sainz had massive issues as wll in the middle stint with the medium tyres. His pace was pretty much the same as Leclerc who was managing the soft tyres (22 laps, way too much for the SF 23). In the final stint the pace on hards was "good" for what are the current capabilities of the car. This race simply highlighted that Ferrari has absolutely no clue on why the car is behaving like it does.

[selvam_e2002]

some one need to give correct feedback to develop the car however it seems sainz and lecrec giving two different direction to engineer hence Ferrari technical team confused to develop the car in which direction.

in Spain, it clearly shows that, Sainz and Lecrec took two different setup hence we saw the different results. we can all speculate but only ferrari team and god knows what going with ferrari.

Ferrari need to forgot the WCC and WDC till 2025. they can better concentrate on 2026. I don't see any single chance they can have to win now and later.

[InsaneX_Badger]

some one need to give correct feedback to develop the car however it seems sainz and lecrec giving two different direction to engineer hence Ferrari technical team confused to develop the car in which direction.

in Spain, it clearly shows that, Sainz and Lecrec took two different setup hence we saw the different results. we can all speculate but only ferrari team and god knows what going with ferrari.

Ferrari need to forgot the WCC and WDC till 2025. they can better concentrate on 2026. I don't see any single chance they can have to win now and later.

When will this carousel of waiting for new regulations with Ferrari end though? Fans and the team itself was saying that they sacrificed the prior seasons to the new regs to focus on development and it hasn't got them anywhere.

[dialtone]

some one need to give correct feedback to develop the car however it seems sainz and lecrec giving two different direction to engineer hence Ferrari technical team confused to develop the car in which direction.

in Spain, it clearly shows that, Sainz and Lecrec took two different setup hence we saw the different results. we can all speculate but only ferrari team and god knows what going with ferrari.

Ferrari need to forgot the WCC and WDC till 2025. they can better concentrate on 2026. I don't see any single chance they can have to win now and later.

There is no such thing as correct/wrong feedback and engineers at that level that are confused by what the drivers say probably shouldn't work there.

For starters these cars are packed with sensors, drivers mostly provide their feelings and what they like/don't like, they aren't going to tell the team that they want the car 10mm higher or the camber they want. I think drivers are incredible athletes but they aren't engineers.

It's also not even just the feedback as a point in time, but how feedback from the driver evolves as the car changes setup through the weekend or in the simulator.

Forgetting seasons and focus on 2026 imho is the wrong approach, if you have an experience/knowledge gap in the engineering team use the time to fill that gap, if you need to experiment with the car, do it. If you need to build out new departments in the factory (like the tires dept talked about here) take advantage of the season to build models. You'll focus on 2026 anyway, your engine team is already working on it.

As people at Amazon say: there's no compression algorithm for experience.

[KimiRai]

For starters these cars are packed with sensors, drivers mostly provide their feelings and what they like/don't like, they aren't going to tell the team that they want the car 10mm higher or the camber they want. I think drivers are incredible athletes but they aren't engineers.

You're right but some drivers are good in the technical aspect as well (some of them even have experience as mechanics) so it wouldn't surprise me if they sometimes suggested in more precise terms as well. Though with how complex these cars are it would be difficult.

[jambuka]

Leclerc & Sainz participated in Pirelli tyre test and the Spanish circuit. Charles completed 169 laps and Carlos 170 laps. Hopefully this will help the team better understand wtf is wrong with the car and they can start extracting more potential.

[AR3-GP]

That is a titanic number of laps. Almost 3 GP worth.

[Xyz22]

Some people have not yet realized how deep Ferrari crisis is. They went from being the best car in some tracks at the start of the 2022 season to being 0.4s off RB in the second half of 2022 and 1s off in 2023. When the overall performance decreases so much YOY with not major regulations change, it means that the Team is simply not good enough. There is no scenario where they can save this season. They are not MB or RB which have always been able to at least respond to mistakes or major issues (Mercedes was actually the fastest car in some tracks last year and RB the same back in 2017/18/19 and 20 despite a slow start). They worked on the Spain package for months, and it didn't bring performance nor better stability to the platform. I wasn't surprised, considering they made the cars slower with upgrades in the past.

Ferrari needs to make massive change and improvements in their organization. Right now they are not nearly good enough to compete for the championship and this is true for every area of the team (technical, operational, etc.). This should be the main goal. They have not done anything in these last years outside hoping the new regs would give them the opportunity to come back. We are in the second season of this new cycle, and they already made a midfield car (because the SF 23 is a midfield car).

[Just_a_fan]

Ferrari needs to make massive change and improvements in their organization.

The best way to prevent improvement is to throw blame at people.

Look at Mercedes - they were behind Ferrari last year. This year they gave worked hard and beaten Ferrari on pure pace.

If Ferrari want to compete, huge changes of personnel is the last thing they need.

[Xwang]

I dont know if this has posted before
Elkann

I am addressing the fans, F1 enthusiasts and sportsmen who carry Ferrari in their hearts. The season is developing below our expectations, we apologize for some bold statements referring to the beginning of the year. We hadn’t realized that it took more time to put the pieces of the puzzle back together. The ownership, represented by me, offers full support to Frédéric who is reorganizing the team in a process that will lead us to experience difficult months also due to an ineffective car

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... na-23.html
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... rosso.html

The first paragraph of the article is not true as explicitly said at the beginning of the second paragraph.
It is an hypothetical press release that has never happened (and will never happen imho).
So if someone has just read the first paragraph and thought that the first step of understanding that there is a big problem to solve has been done, well it has not.
So as I have said no hope until this property is in place!

[mzso]

I wonder why FIA does not check how they manage to have these speeds ... In 2019 they focused on Ferrari's engine which didn't have such an advantage.

They check and examine parts as always.
And it's not about advantage, the Ferrari was doing illegal things. The Red Bull is just good, by the looks of it.

Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wall

And their failure to penalize Gasly and Sargeant, doesn't make Sainz's penalty less valid.

You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...

You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

No, it equals to tough luck.
And there were consequences. Alonso was last after that, might have even crashed out. He was only saved by Gasly's stupidity and the red flag.

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points

Irrelevant, he made a big mistake and got the normal 5 second penalty for it.

[Xyz22]

Ferrari needs to make massive change and improvements in their organization.

The best way to prevent improvement is to throw blame at people.

Look at Mercedes - they were behind Ferrari last year. This year they gave worked hard and beaten Ferrari on pure pace.

If Ferrari want to compete, huge changes of personnel is the last thing they need.

I don't understand the comparison with Mercedes and for multiple reasons. Mercedes has dominated the WCC for 8 years in a row winning 112 races between 2014 and 2022, while Ferrari was only able to win 3 races in 2015, 5 in 2017, 6 in 2018, 3 in 2019 and 4 in 2022 for a total of 21 races. Clearly this shows the massive difference in terms of capabilities between the two teams.
Moreover, Mercedes has made significant changes in their organization after 2022 and early 2023 results (for instance they put Allison back as a Technical Director).

I'd like to remember that Ferrari is still without an official Technical Director.

[mzso]

None said he should not receive any penalty. But from not receiving any penalty, and receiving a penalty wich equals disqualifying, there are several steps in between wich are not as hard nor lenient

And no, 5s is not the minimum punishment, there are grid penalties, they can drop him one position, there are several options to not punish that hard a driver who only went a bit long on first lap, wich is usually considered a racing incident.

No there aren't. Grid penalties apply only if the decision is made after the race. There was no reason to delay, since the race was stopped. There's no such penalty as "drop one position", that's in MotoGP I think.
And again, it does not equal disqualifying.

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points

You can stop reiterating the same nonsense.
And in anyway. Should a driver be allowed to do illegal/dangerous moves as long as the victim escapes loss of position by luck or skill? I should hope not.

What Ferrari fans say is irrelevant to an argument. But in any case it's starting to get proved true, as far as the championship goes. Unless there's some miraculous revolution for Ferrari by Baku they're not likely to get a driver finish within the top four.

If a mistake is not punished, penalty is useless. If it´s punished harder than necessary, it´s not fair, as it´s applying different standards to different drivers. If any driver who rotates an opponent is DSQ ok, but DSQ some drivers, while others don´t receive any penalty, lenient or hard, is against the spirit of sports and competition

It´s surprising reading proportionality doesn´t matter on penalties

Again with this nonsense. He literally got the smallest available punishment! (Twenty years ago it would have been a 10s stop&go penalty.)
What's very wrong is that Gasly and Sargeant didn't get a grid penalty...

What is confusing me is the claim that a Ferrari fan’s opinion on this matter is irrelevant. Why should someone have their opinion fundamentally discounted and discarded based on their rooting interest(s)?

I assume anyone else with a potential conflict of interest would also have their opinion tossed to the curb?

Evaluate one’s position based on the claims they make and the merit behind said claims. Labeling someone and discarding their opinion based on that label (instead of the substance of their opinion) is pretty tough stuff.

In my opinion, Sainz’ penalty was entirely beyond the spirit of an on-track time penalty given the circumstances of the race at that stage. A retroactive grid penalty or license points penalty would seem a lot more reasonable in context.

It's not about opinions, or spirit, it's about rules being broken, and penalization. 5s penalty was always what was given for a move like this, as was now. Nothing to criticize the stewards for.