Belgian GP 2008

[myurr]

No. I think legally can be argued but the fans dont need that crap. The FIA is up its own arse and they're forgetting the fans want to get back to the gladatorial days of Senna and prost, and they talk of the spectacle of formula 1 but they're missing a big opertunity in LH to get that back. No1 can argue that he has the strongest will to win in F1 and he's got the big brass ones to back it up.
Sorry i'm ranting a bit.
to sum up:
I think legally they have a point because in leaving the track he did gain an advantage.
I think he did enought to mitigate that advantage even if he did recieve one.
So they should have left it.
i was watching it with no commentary so in my little bubble i saw nothing wrong withn it at all.
And truth be told if they pulled that call on a ferrari i would sh*t a chicken.

Fair enough, in which case we pretty much have the same view...

Edit: Except for the chicken part - that's just not me...

[SZ]

casper, Pete Gill's article is some of the most selective reading I've yet seen.

Did LH gain a racing advantage by being off track? Yes, he'd not have been able to overtake where he did if he did. He broke the rules (those quoted).

It also states pretty clearly in the rules that Charlie Whiting's opinion during the race is irrelevant, that such incidents are always reviewed after the race. It certainly doesn't state Niki Lauda's opinion's worth anything either.

If you want to pick on anything and call it unfair, look carefully to see if KR overtook under yellows. If he did, he deserves a 10-place penalty next race.

[axle]

I'd rather NO penalties for excellent RACING.

So lets sum up Spa.

Drivers and teams gave great spectacle, one of the best races ever for that finale.
FIA annoyed everyone, bar Ferrari and their die hard fans.

Lets move on to Monza.

[SZ]

Try another perspective axle; you get no penalties when you follow the rules, this wasn't done and it could have been easily done. Fans are right to be upset but directing your ire at FIA/Ferrari is pointing it at the wrong culprit.

How hard (seriously) would it have been for LH+team to hold off for a corner and avoid the ambiguity for another corner? He'd have won the race anyway, and they knew it's was a marginal move. Why run to CW in the first place and as if that was clearly OK? Because you know it's not.

The incredible thing is that LH has been rightly penalised for the same thing, with the same penalty imposed, this season already. He should know better. So who's bringing the sport into disrepute and ruining a good race?

Drivers and teams gave great spectacle, one of the best races ever for that finale.
LH+McLaren got cheeky.
FIA followed the rulebook, as a result, the car breaking the rules didn't win.

Onto Monza.

[Crabbia]

How hard (seriously) would it have been for LH+team to hold off for a corner and avoid the ambiguity for another corner? He'd have won the race anyway, and they knew it's was a marginal move. Why run to CW in the first place and as if that was clearly OK? Because you know it's not.

I completely agree with you here, he was hot headed. He was clearly quicker and could virtually have had his pick of the corners for the next 2 laps. but see this point of view and ask yourself this question: If senna (or any1 of that era) did the same and he was penalised for it, wouldn't it have been odd?

Thats were the FIA is lacking. and again it may be argued as its not their fault but the stewards, but whatever the case they need to stop all the legal shenanigans and focus on the track. The FIA missed the oppurtunity to repair F1's growing reputation as a court sport and only added to it.

[nae]

oh a case of 20/20 hind sight to the rescue

france and spa where different in that in france he made no attempt to give the place back

it seems that giving the place back wasnt enough he apparently should
have disadvantaged himself more than crossing behind the car in front

what is expect here is far from clear much like the explanation from the stewards

hey ho

PS a drive through penalty cant be appealed

[chasefreak]

The FIA missed the oppurtunity to repair F1's growing reputation as a court sport and only added to it.

i totally agree with u

[SZ]

oh a case of 20/20 hind sight to the rescue

france and spa where different in that in france he made no attempt to give the place back

it seems that giving the place back wasnt enough he apparently should
have disadvantaged himself more than crossing behind the car in front

what is expect here is far from clear much like the explanation from the stewards

hey ho

PS a drive through penalty cant be appealed

wrong. it's the same infraction.

I completely agree with you here, he was hot headed. He was clearly quicker and could virtually have had his pick of the corners for the next 2 laps. but see this point of view and ask yourself this question: If senna (or any1 of that era) did the same and he was penalised for it, wouldn't it have been odd?

Thats were the FIA is lacking. and again it may be argued as its not their fault but the stewards, but whatever the case they need to stop all the legal shenanigans and focus on the track. The FIA missed the oppurtunity to repair F1's growing reputation as a court sport and only added to it.

Hey, no one's doubting that the FIA have made some silly decisions, or that it can appear inconsistent. But that logic only asks why LH wasn't let off for breaking the rules - by definition it accepts that he did! And that's the question - did he break the rules? if you can accept he did, then you accept he took a risk in getting caught. Which he did! In a sport like F1 where teams have access to all sorts of data, are super organised, mega resources and know the rules months in advance of the start of the season, it's a mega fail on LH/McLaren's part not to tell their driver to hold off a corner and avoid the ambiguity.

Much like Senna/MS, the fact he breaks rules doesn't take away from him that he's a great talent. And the fact MS and Senna broke rules and didn't always get punished doesn't mean for a second that they're weren't times they did. There certainly were.

Or another perspective. If KR had overtaken LH as such, do you really think LH+entourage would have been as quiet about it? Think not! It'd have been 'dirty Ferrari tactics and FIA support' if KR didn't get stung, and the world would applaud the FIA for being fair if he did!

I'm no Ferrari fanboy, I'm all for the sport, I don't doubt the fans were failed this weekend but I'd be careful where people point the finger for that...

[Crabbia]

Much like Senna/MS, the fact he breaks rules doesn't take away from him that he's a great talent. And the fact MS and Senna broke rules and didn't always get punished doesn't mean for a second that they're weren't times they did. There certainly were.

ya i see your point and i agree with you but for the good of the sport i think it would be better if the FIA just put a stop to marginal calls. the sport doesnt need this kind of thing.

Or another perspective. If KR had overtaken LH as such, do you really think LH+entourage would have been as quiet about it? Think not! It'd have been 'dirty Ferrari tactics and FIA support' if KR didn't get stung, and the world would applaud the FIA for being fair if he did!

I agree with you here, the macca fanboys would have gone apesh*t cause their pet of subject is the inconsistency of the FIA. the FIA is consistently inconsistent.

I'm no Ferrari fanboy, I'm all for the sport, I don't doubt the fans were failed this weekend but I'd be careful where people point the finger for that...

I am a ferrari fan but i dont want to win like this.

[nae]

wrong. it's the same infraction.

all be it with a different event occurring 5 seconds later that is apparently in full compliance with the perceived interpretation of the rules

or did i not see lewis slow and return the place

silly me

and for the future avoidance of doubt i am not a 'macca fanboy'

if anything i follow that journeyman driver DC, and in all probability will follow him out of the sport

[Belatti]

Senna never broke rules.
Hamilton did in France, nor in Spa.

[woohoo]

It does not not matter what the fans want.
They just want their man to win.

Just because someone broke the rules and got away with it doesn't make it right.
Now the precedent has been set; if you gain an unfair advantage, you get a drive though.
I hope it sticks.

[woohoo]

Senna never broke rules.
Hamilton did in France, nor in Spa.

no no, he just happened to crash into Prost on two occasions where the the championship was decided.

[ben_watkins]

Very good article from The Guardian newspaper..

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ ... rrari.html

"It is not necessary to be a fan of Hamilton or the McLaren team, or to harbour a dislike of Ferrari, to see that here is a miscarriage of justice entirely consistent with formula one's current code of practice, in which the rules mean whatever the men in charge want them to mean."

I couldn't agree more.

[Crabbia]

very one sided with sprinkles of subjectivity

Very good article from The Guardian newspaper..

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/ ... rrari.html

"It is not necessary to be a fan of Hamilton or the McLaren team, or to harbour a dislike of Ferrari, to see that here is a miscarriage of justice entirely consistent with formula one's current code of practice, in which the rules mean whatever the men in charge want them to mean."

I couldn't agree more.

almost all one sided with sprinkles of subjectivity. But you have to realise that he is writing for a british paper, he has to be on LH side to sell issues.

for a balance view read what italian press is saying.