2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Shal_Leg16]

Wow, there really can't be anything remote to a rational discussion with you... You've already agreed Charles is a better driver, I can't understand what you are trying to prove? Sainz couldn't keep his position on fastest available tyres against Hamilton and 2-3 second he lost in pits is what he ended up behind Russell anyway. He couldn't overtake Russell, never had the track position, so there was no chance for him to end up on podium on his own pace and merit. Pit stops themselves are not Ferrari's problem at all, they are really good with tyre change. And somehow Ferrari ruined his race again He got 2 points extra because of Ferrari messing up with Leclerc, you should be happy Sainz finished 4th.

He's fundamentaly not wrong.
As I already said Leclerc was 2-2.5sec behind Sainz for the first stint he came into his DRS zone when Sainz was 1.2/0.7 behind Russell. So no blistering pace from him on that first stint.
Leclerc has already been so much faster than his teamates that he overtook them few laps after the start, remember Barhain 2019. It was not the case.

Ferrari messed up the race of Sainz by covering the strategy of Russell. Idk if it was to let Leclerc in clean air or just sheer incompetence but it was so wrong when you start on harder tyres and you don't get track position for this exact reason on the first stint.

Again not true.

2.3
1.9
1.3
1.2
1.3

These were gaps to Russell that Sainz bad before Russel pitted.

1.1
1.1
0.9
0.7
0.6

These were gaps Leclerc had with Sainz before he pitted. Leclerc was gaining more on Sainz, then Sainz has gained on Russell, even though Russell had soft tires that degraded more at that point.

We saw how quickly Leclerc hunted Russell on 4 laps newer mediums, so difference should have been similar in Sainz vs Russell case but Sainz made no impression on him either 1st or 2nd time.

They are trying yo claim that...the reason leclerc was fast was because he was in sainz DRS, credit goes to sainz.

[Spoutnik]

Leclerc lapped in 1.45 with the cold hard tyres. Even Latifi would have been faster than him.

Oh ok I was not sure if it was the difference between the two outlap or the outlap of Max and the "normal" lap of Charles.

[Spoutnik]

He's fundamentaly not wrong.
As I already said Leclerc was 2-2.5sec behind Sainz for the first stint he came into his DRS zone when Sainz was 1.2/0.7 behind Russell. So no blistering pace from him on that first stint.
Leclerc has already been so much faster than his teamates that he overtook them few laps after the start, remember Barhain 2019. It was not the case.

Ferrari messed up the race of Sainz by covering the strategy of Russell. Idk if it was to let Leclerc in clean air or just sheer incompetence but it was so wrong when you start on harder tyres and you don't get track position for this exact reason on the first stint.

Again not true.

2.3
1.9
1.3
1.2
1.3

These were gaps to Russell that Sainz bad before Russel pitted.

1.1
1.1
0.9
0.7
0.6

These were gaps Leclerc had with Sainz before he pitted. Leclerc was gaining more on Sainz, then Sainz has gained on Russell, even though Russell had soft tires that degraded more at that point.

We saw how quickly Leclerc hunted Russell on 4 laps newer mediums, so difference should have been similar in Sainz vs Russell case but Sainz made no impression on him either 1st or 2nd time.

They are trying yo claim that...the reason leclerc was fast was because he was in sainz DRS, credit goes to sainz.

Not at all I'm just saying Charles was marginally faster than Carlos on the medium, but anyway the Merc was pretty fast on the soft.
You are speaking about the 2nd stint but the tyres were the same, and ofc we know Charkes has more aggression in wheel to wheel than Carlos.

All I'm saying is Ferrari should've keep Sainz on the best strategy (longer 1st stint and not covering Russell because he had to stop with tyre deg on the soft), by extenting if he was still a bit slower than Charles they should've inverted position. That's it. By doing this Sainz could've been on the podium to collect precious points for the WCC.

[JPower]

Sucked a plastic bag through the right intake. You can see it stuck in the louvers. People need to hold on to their trash.

[tpe]

''no idea why did not stay out for longer first stint, at least with one car, trying to make a longer medium - medium - soft or medium soft medium'' They didn't for the simple reason that they could not use tyres that they did not had.

What are you talking about? The DID use 2 Mediums (start/1st pitstop) and they did had 3 sets of (used) softs. Of course they had the tires.

[codetower]

Again not true.

2.3
1.9
1.3
1.2
1.3

These were gaps to Russell that Sainz bad before Russel pitted.

1.1
1.1
0.9
0.7
0.6

These were gaps Leclerc had with Sainz before he pitted. Leclerc was gaining more on Sainz, then Sainz has gained on Russell, even though Russell had soft tires that degraded more at that point.

We saw how quickly Leclerc hunted Russell on 4 laps newer mediums, so difference should have been similar in Sainz vs Russell case but Sainz made no impression on him either 1st or 2nd time.

They are trying yo claim that...the reason leclerc was fast was because he was in sainz DRS, credit goes to sainz.

Not at all I'm just saying Charles was marginally faster than Carlos on the medium, but anyway the Merc was pretty fast on the soft.
You are speaking about the 2nd stint but the tyres were the same, and ofc we know Charkes has more aggression in wheel to wheel than Carlos.

All I'm saying is Ferrari should've keep Sainz on the best strategy (longer 1st stint and not covering Russell because he had to stop with tyre deg on the soft), by extenting if he was still a bit slower than Charles they should've inverted position. That's it. By doing this Sainz could've been on the podium to collect precious points for the WCC.

They pitted Sainz after his first stint because his times were dropping. The times of the last 5 laps of his first stint (right before pitting him):

12 - 1:24.3
13 - 1:24.1
14 - 1:24.4
15 - 1:24.6
16 - 1:25.1
17 - BOX

The one they should have left longer was Leclerc during his 2nd stint (last 5 laps before PIT):

34 - 1:23.8
35 - 1:23.4
36 - 1:23.1
37 - 1:23.4
38 - 1:23.8
39 - BOX

But this has already been talked about… plenty.

One other thing when you compare the speed of the two drivers… LEC did a 1:22.4 and a 1:22.8 ON THE HARDS. Sai only had 3 laps the entire race faster than that.. and those were on Softs with presumably lower fuel levels. (laps 50-52 vs laps 43-44 on hards)

Leclerc is the faster driver, consistently. There may be a race or two where Sainz might be having a better day, but just because Perez beats Verstappen on occasion, or Bottas beats Hamilton on occasion, it doesnt mean they should be the #1 driver. Leclerc should be the #1. It shouldn’t be a discussion.

[pipoloko]

hamilton vs sainz both of them are almost on the same strategy both on reds (aftre 2 stints on yellows)
SAI HAM + SAI ahead of HAM
47 lap P21:26.632 pit P11:23.759 +2.873 +0.548
48 lap P51:43.136 out P11:24.863 +18.273 +18.821
49 lap P51:22.944 P11:24.581 -1.637 +17.184
50 lap P51:22.389 P11:24.766 -2.377 +14.807
51 lap P51:22.000 P21:26.795 pit -4.795 +10.012
52 lap P41:22.491 P51:42.723 out -20.232 -10.220
53 lap P41:22.888 P51:22.507 +0.381 -9.839
54 lap P31:22.984 P51:21.685 +1.299 -8.540
55 lap P31:22.866 P41:21.848 +1.018 -7.522
56 lap P31:22.983 P41:21.560 +1.423 -6.099
57 lap P31:22.673 P41:21.386 +1.287 -4.812
58 lap P31:22.926 P41:21.942 +0.984 -3.828
59 lap P31:22.893 P41:21.831 +1.062 -2.766
60 lap P31:23.237 P41:21.805 +1.432 -1.334
61 lap P31:23.124 P41:22.440 +0.684 -0.650
62 lap P31:24.150 P41:23.666 +0.484 -0.166
63 lap P41:24.236 P31:21.790 +2.446 +2.280
64 lap P41:23.638 P31:23.394 +0.244 +2.524
65 lap P41:23.546 P21:22.438 +1.108 +3.632
66 lap P41:23.988 P21:22.730 +1.258 +4.890
67 lap P41:24.600 P21:23.059 +1.541 +6.431
68 lap P41:45.307 P21:39.986 +5.321 +11.752
69 lap P41:36.569 P21:41.600 -5.031 +6.721
70 lap P41:26.862 P21:26.838 +0.024 +6.745

is HAM 1 sec faster tham sainz? or its ferrari slower than MB?

[saviour stivala]

''no idea why did not stay out for longer first stint, at least with one car, trying to make a longer medium - medium - soft or medium soft medium'' They didn't for the simple reason that they could not use tyres that they did not had.

What are you talking about? The DID use 2 Mediums (start/1st pitstop) and they did had 3 sets of (used) softs. Of course they had the tires.

Wolff: ‘’FERRARI lost the race with free practice decision” July 31 – Jamie Woodhead.
Apart from all that, the bad decision by FERRARI to use hards. Both RBR and FERRARI tyre strategy tools said the same thing/showed the same outcome about the use of hard tyre, that it will be a good option. But the RBR team + drivers overrode that at the very last moments before the race.

[TimW]

Ferrari got their setup wrong, so Mercedes may have had the faster car. Sainz (used) softs were 4 or 5 laps older. And I think no-one will argue that Hamilton is the better driver.

[pipoloko]

once HAM returned to the track 18 laps were missing
he shaved 17 secs to Sainz and gain a position ( while sainz lost 2)
the average shaved is almost 1 sec per lap
explain that
ham vs sai what you want to say -.3?
4 laps older reds .1?.2?
the difference was the car !!!!
finally someone agrees!!!
do you guys thinks that Binoto and Co dosent know that?
why are we discussing strategy, right or wrong calls?

[Vanja #66]

Taking Sainz times as relevant is the same as taking Alonso or Vettel's poor results as an indicator of their pure speed.

Sainz was slow because he isn't consistent and doesn't adapt to different conditions well. Ferrari was the best car yesterday, Leclerc showed this with extreme ease in stint 2, being fastest and taking care of tires.

If Leclerc got another 10 laps in second stint and switched to softs, he would have overtaken Max in the end without a fuss, 5-10 laps before the end of the race. He was faster than Max the entire stint 2 when Max had clear track at P4, bar the 4 laps he was fighting Russell for position.

[Spoutnik]

They are trying yo claim that...the reason leclerc was fast was because he was in sainz DRS, credit goes to sainz.

Not at all I'm just saying Charles was marginally faster than Carlos on the medium, but anyway the Merc was pretty fast on the soft.
You are speaking about the 2nd stint but the tyres were the same, and ofc we know Charkes has more aggression in wheel to wheel than Carlos.

All I'm saying is Ferrari should've keep Sainz on the best strategy (longer 1st stint and not covering Russell because he had to stop with tyre deg on the soft), by extenting if he was still a bit slower than Charles they should've inverted position. That's it. By doing this Sainz could've been on the podium to collect precious points for the WCC.

They pitted Sainz after his first stint because his times were dropping. The times of the last 5 laps of his first stint (right before pitting him):

12 - 1:24.3
13 - 1:24.1
14 - 1:24.4
15 - 1:24.6
16 - 1:25.1
17 - BOX

The one they should have left longer was Leclerc during his 2nd stint (last 5 laps before PIT):

34 - 1:23.8
35 - 1:23.4
36 - 1:23.1
37 - 1:23.4
38 - 1:23.8
39 - BOX

But this has already been talked about… plenty.

One other thing when you compare the speed of the two drivers… LEC did a 1:22.4 and a 1:22.8 ON THE HARDS. Sai only had 3 laps the entire race faster than that.. and those were on Softs with presumably lower fuel levels. (laps 50-52 vs laps 43-44 on hards)

Leclerc is the faster driver, consistently. There may be a race or two where Sainz might be having a better day, but just because Perez beats Verstappen on occasion, or Bottas beats Hamilton on occasion, it doesnt mean they should be the #1 driver. Leclerc should be the #1. It shouldn’t be a discussion.

That's not the discussion for me I've never said Sainz has to be n°1. I'm just saying the way Ferrari handle the interaction is problematic because Sainz is losing important points too for the WCC (It would have been the case in Silverstone too without the SC).

[codetower]

once HAM returned to the track 18 laps were missing
he shaved 17 secs to Sainz and gain a position ( while sainz lost 2)
the average shaved is almost 1 sec per lap
explain that
ham vs sai what you want to say -.3?
4 laps older reds .1?.2?
the difference was the car !!!!
finally someone agrees!!!
do you guys thinks that Binoto and Co dosent know that?
why are we discussing strategy, right or wrong calls?

Because it's the strategy calls that potentially ruined Leclerc's race. It's not about Sainz. Leclerc HAD the pace, he HAD the speed. And it was an obvious strategy blunder to box him early when he was still posting decent times, onto a tyre that no one thought would work. Charles was still doing in the 1.23's on the yellows when they pitted him. The teams that went hards were doing 1.25's, 1.26's... even a couple of 1.27 laps. Verstappen was less than 10s behind. Did they really think Lec was going to hold anyone at bay on the hards? Especially Verstappen or Hamilton? You leave him out there till the Mediums drop into the high 1.24s then jump in for Reds.

That's not the discussion for me I've never said Sainz has to be n°1. I'm just saying the way Ferrari handle the interaction is problematic because Sainz is losing important points too for the WCC (It would have been the case in Silverstone too without the SC).

Possibly, but they can't keep with this "we don't have a #1" driver because in the end, they are BOTH losing points. You cant sacrifice 4 points for your leading driver to get the other an extra 2.


(Edit to include new reply. To avoid 2 consecutive posts)

[Drift4794]

Taking Sainz times as relevant is the same as taking Alonso or Vettel's poor results as an indicator of their pure speed.

Sainz was slow because he isn't consistent and doesn't adapt to different conditions well. Ferrari was the best car yesterday, Leclerc showed this with extreme ease in stint 2, being fastest and taking care of tires.

If Leclerc got another 10 laps in second stint and switched to softs, he would have overtaken Max in the end without a fuss, 5-10 laps before the end of the race. He was faster than Max the entire stint 2 when Max had clear track at P4, bar the 4 laps he was fighting Russell for position.

And yet, Binotto thinks Ferrari didn't have the pace to win the race. Team management really perplexes me at times: always ready with excuses and a defeatist mentality.

[Xyz22]

WDC gap after 13 races

2017 Hamilton 238 Vettel 235 --> -3 pt

2018 Hamilton 231 Vettel 214 --> -17 pt

2022 Verstappen 258 Leclerc 178 --> -80 pt


The worst managed team in all Motorsport.