2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Bandit1216]

Dutch journalist speculate it might take Mercedes long because they have only 1/3 interest in the team. So even when Daimler says to let it rest, it's still Toto and Eneos to convince.

I really respect Lewis and Anthony. Lewis is a legend. In two years he's 38 years old, 7, 8 or 9 times would champion with at least 110 races won. He can retire and forever hold his head up.

[Tom145145]

These are troubling times, these don’t seem like the actions of an organisation backing down. If Daimler as a whole including all FIA series are geared up for this, I don’t think anything is off the table. I was hoping for mutually assured destruction to keep this in check, it seems though it could be all out war.

[Tom145145]

Dutch journalist speculate it might take Mercedes long because they have only 1/3 interest in the team. So even when Daimler says to let it rest, it's still Toto and Eneos to convince.

Although true in that it’s shared ownership, I don’t think there is any indication that Daimler is asking for it to be dropped. In fact if the reports just posted are true all of Daimlers teams in FIA competition are boycotting atm.

[Big Tea]

First off let me make it clear I am not happy with the way thing were done and changes or clarification is needed from here on.

Having said that, at the end of the day or any other cliché you want to start it off with, what do we have?

Over simplifying it but

Red Bull and Max have a drivers title. (they are happy)
Mercedes have another consecutive manufacturers title. (they are happy)
Lewis has the record number of wins and points. ( he is happy but still has a target of most ever )
The TV channels have had a field day, as have the internet boards. (they are very happy as are anyone getting the sponsorship shown over and over)

As long a Merc and F1 can come to an amicable agreement, just maybe, for all the wrong reasons, it has not turned out too bad?

Hamilton fans are not very happy, but keep in mind some were saying he was going to retire if he got his record title, so we could lose him but now he has something to prove again and should be fired up for the new season

[SiLo]

First off let me make it clear I am not happy with the way thing were done and changes or clarification is needed from here on.

Having said that, at the end of the day or any other cliché you want to start it off with, what do we have?

Over simplifying it but

Red Bull and Max have a drivers title. (they are happy)
Mercedes have another consecutive manufacturers title. (they are happy)
Lewis has the record number of wins and points. ( he is happy but still has a target of most ever )
The TV channels have had a field day, as have the internet boards. (they are very happy as are anyone getting the sponsorship shown over and over)

As long a Merc and F1 can come to an amicable agreement, just maybe, for all the wrong reasons, it has not turned out too bad?

Hamilton fans are not very happy, but keep in mind some were saying he was going to retire if he got his record title, so we could lose him but now he has something to prove again and should be fired up for the new season

That's nice, still doesn't stop the issue of rules being applied incorrectly, which means teams are effectively racing against moving goalposts all the time. Quite simply, it needs to be fixed otherwise it will continue and teams will have no faith in the FIA to run race weekends effectively.

[Big Tea]

First off let me make it clear I am not happy with the way thing were done and changes or clarification is needed from here on.

Having said that, at the end of the day or any other cliché you want to start it off with, what do we have?

Over simplifying it but

Red Bull and Max have a drivers title. (they are happy)
Mercedes have another consecutive manufacturers title. (they are happy)
Lewis has the record number of wins and points. ( he is happy but still has a target of most ever )
The TV channels have had a field day, as have the internet boards. (they are very happy as are anyone getting the sponsorship shown over and over)

As long a Merc and F1 can come to an amicable agreement, just maybe, for all the wrong reasons, it has not turned out too bad?

Hamilton fans are not very happy, but keep in mind some were saying he was going to retire if he got his record title, so we could lose him but now he has something to prove again and should be fired up for the new season

That's nice, still doesn't stop the issue of rules being applied incorrectly, which means teams are effectively racing against moving goalposts all the time. Quite simply, it needs to be fixed otherwise it will continue and teams will have no faith in the FIA to run race weekends effectively.

The first line says I am not happy with it, and it is clear now that 'something has to be done' so that is probably a given

[mafeotul]

First off let me make it clear I am not happy with the way thing were done and changes or clarification is needed from here on.

Having said that, at the end of the day or any other cliché you want to start it off with, what do we have?

Over simplifying it but

Red Bull and Max have a drivers title. (they are happy)
Mercedes have another consecutive manufacturers title. (they are happy)
Lewis has the record number of wins and points. ( he is happy but still has a target of most ever )
The TV channels have had a field day, as have the internet boards. (they are very happy as are anyone getting the sponsorship shown over and over)

As long a Merc and F1 can come to an amicable agreement, just maybe, for all the wrong reasons, it has not turned out too bad?

Hamilton fans are not very happy, but keep in mind some were saying he was going to retire if he got his record title, so we could lose him but now he has something to prove again and should be fired up for the new season

In agreement with many things, however.

Fraudulently manufacturing results in a sport where billions are invested, where you have shareholders, Massive Brands, massive followings, and most importantly one of the biggest car manufacturers on the planet cannot end with a fair shake or just money.

This isn’t a slap on the wrist. This isn’t a disagreement. This is arguably the worst decision in sport in a long time, aligned with Cycling doping scandal and the Russian nationals doping scandal.

Refusing to see it differently doesn’t change the scope.

There is a massive possibility we won’t know anything, but i highly doubt, Daimler, Mercedes and everyone else involved will not be acting upon this.

[CMSMJ1]

Come on people - this is done.

What sensible action could there actually be to amend the race result?

The madness of trying to formulate a last lap under race conditions has identified issues in the regs that needs sorting. The race result is done and dusted and changing it after the fact is even worse an issue than the original cock up.

[KeiKo403]

Couple of arguments I’m seeing here is Max has been declared the winner of the race and championship so it’s unfair to strip him of the race win and WDC crown.

However if the argument of fairness is anything to go by then it was unfair to say the least how that race ended.

The argument of Max has 10 wins to Lewis’ 8 is also undone by this too as if fairness is taken into account then Max didn’t win AD and Lewis did, ergo 9 wins each.

Masi has also insinuated that fairness doesn’t come into it with his “this is a motor race”

The thing I think I most dislike is Max saying that it’s ok for him to be champion because Lewis already had 7 titles and so as bad as it is for Lewis to feel how he does it would’ve been worse for Max to not win the Championship because he didn’t win a race he wasn’t on to win for 57/58 laps anyway.

[101FlyingDutchman]

And round and round we go on the “fairness/perceived rights & wrong/who said and did what to who” merry go ride.

We shall see if it goes any further.

As a bare minimum I hope this is a catalyst to improve and get FIA/Stewarding/Rulebook fit for purpose without external pressures influencing decision making.

Merry Christmas all

[DChemTech]

Couple of arguments I’m seeing here is Max has been declared the winner of the race and championship so it’s unfair to strip him of the race win and WDC crown.

However if the argument of fairness is anything to go by then it was unfair to say the least how that race ended.

The argument of Max has 10 wins to Lewis’ 8 is also undone by this too as if fairness is taken into account then Max didn’t win AD and Lewis did, ergo 9 wins each.

Masi has also insinuated that fairness doesn’t come into it with his “this is a motor race”

The thing I think I most dislike is Max saying that it’s ok for him to be champion because Lewis already had 7 titles and so as bad as it is for Lewis to feel how he does it would’ve been worse for Max to not win the Championship because he didn’t win a race he wasn’t on to win for 57/58 laps anyway.

No, what would be unfair is to revert one decision that was unfair to Lewis while neglecting other decisions throughout the season that were unfair to Max (or others), and then calling it fair . Again, the championship is the sum of the season, not the result of a single race. Singling out one decision and forgetting the rest does not lead to fairness.

[kenshi_blind]

Couple of arguments I’m seeing here is Max has been declared the winner of the race and championship so it’s unfair to strip him of the race win and WDC crown.

However if the argument of fairness is anything to go by then it was unfair to say the least how that race ended.

The argument of Max has 10 wins to Lewis’ 8 is also undone by this too as if fairness is taken into account then Max didn’t win AD and Lewis did, ergo 9 wins each.

Masi has also insinuated that fairness doesn’t come into it with his “this is a motor race”

The thing I think I most dislike is Max saying that it’s ok for him to be champion because Lewis already had 7 titles and so as bad as it is for Lewis to feel how he does it would’ve been worse for Max to not win the Championship because he didn’t win a race he wasn’t on to win for 57/58 laps anyway.

No, what would be unfair is to revert one decision that was unfair to Lewis while neglecting other decisions throughout the season that were unfair to Max (or others), and then calling it fair . Again, the championship is the sum of the season, not the result of a single race. Singling out one decision and forgetting the rest does not lead to fairness.

i would genuinely want to know what decision was unfair to Max throughout the course of the season

[Starkblood80]

Couple of arguments I’m seeing here is Max has been declared the winner of the race and championship so it’s unfair to strip him of the race win and WDC crown.

However if the argument of fairness is anything to go by then it was unfair to say the least how that race ended.

The argument of Max has 10 wins to Lewis’ 8 is also undone by this too as if fairness is taken into account then Max didn’t win AD and Lewis did, ergo 9 wins each.

Masi has also insinuated that fairness doesn’t come into it with his “this is a motor race”

The thing I think I most dislike is Max saying that it’s ok for him to be champion because Lewis already had 7 titles and so as bad as it is for Lewis to feel how he does it would’ve been worse for Max to not win the Championship because he didn’t win a race he wasn’t on to win for 57/58 laps anyway.

No, what would be unfair is to revert one decision that was unfair to Lewis while neglecting other decisions throughout the season that were unfair to Max (or others), and then calling it fair . Again, the championship is the sum of the season, not the result of a single race. Singling out one decision and forgetting the rest does not lead to fairness.

i would genuinely want to know what decision was unfair to Max throughout the course of the season

Wait for it…….Silverstone

[El Scorchio]

There is no fair result in terms of the WDC for 2021, really. It's unfair that Hamilton had it taken away from him in that Masi ****show that undoubtedly altered the result of the race. It's unfair if you now take it away from Verstappen after the party. The fairest thing, should anything come of the appeal would probably to declare them joint champions (see Olympic high jump) but firstly it wouldn't happen and secondly it's a bit unsatisfactory all round.

The main takeaway from all this regardless of the title should be sorting out this mess to ensure nothing like this can happen again and regs/protocol can just be dispensed with at the drop of a hat by some moron in the race director's seat with a headset and a microphone, because plenty of people shrugging their shoulders and saying '**** happens' should remember that if there isn't change, what happened to Hamilton could easily happen to Verstappen- or anyone else- in the future.

Masi needs to be held fully accountable for this and- in my opinion- fired. He also needs to apologise before he goes. Then needs to be something put in place so the race director cannot go rogue if he feels like it. A judgement call with an overtake or defending a position is one thing which will always be subjective regardless, but abandoning the rules of the sport for entertainment purposes is absolutely unacceptable, and all of us should feel the same way about that. In addition, they need to take away the teams' ability to talk to him which I am sure we all agree with. I got sick to the back teeth of constantly hearing Jonathan Wheatley and to a lesser extent Ron Meadows and the two team principals getting in his ear to petition him every single time something happened.

[DChemTech]

Couple of arguments I’m seeing here is Max has been declared the winner of the race and championship so it’s unfair to strip him of the race win and WDC crown.

However if the argument of fairness is anything to go by then it was unfair to say the least how that race ended.

The argument of Max has 10 wins to Lewis’ 8 is also undone by this too as if fairness is taken into account then Max didn’t win AD and Lewis did, ergo 9 wins each.

Masi has also insinuated that fairness doesn’t come into it with his “this is a motor race”

The thing I think I most dislike is Max saying that it’s ok for him to be champion because Lewis already had 7 titles and so as bad as it is for Lewis to feel how he does it would’ve been worse for Max to not win the Championship because he didn’t win a race he wasn’t on to win for 57/58 laps anyway.

No, what would be unfair is to revert one decision that was unfair to Lewis while neglecting other decisions throughout the season that were unfair to Max (or others), and then calling it fair . Again, the championship is the sum of the season, not the result of a single race. Singling out one decision and forgetting the rest does not lead to fairness.

i would genuinely want to know what decision was unfair to Max throughout the course of the season

I have literally mentioned that a few posts back. In Bahrain Lewis was allowed to gain a persistent advantage of 3s by ignoring track limits, something that Masi himself afterwards said was illegal, but did not penalize. Without this advantage, MV might have well won the race, and those points were essential to the championship if the last race was decided in Lewis' favor.
Other than that changes in the regulations regarding wings and pitstops have negatively affected RB, although that is much harder to quantify. Still, mid-season rule changes in general are problematic because they potentially affect some teams more than others, and introduce new requirements that could not be anticipated when designing the cars/setting team procedures for the season.
No, not Silverstone. That decision was fair. I am not happy with the result as such, but that was not a fault of the race director or a regulation change.