Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[ringo]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.
Right now, i think they have a strong front end, but need to focus on a new upper diffuser and the ebd.

[forty-two]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.
Right now, i think they have a strong front end, but need to focus on a new upper diffuser and the ebd.

You surprise me Ringo. I would have thought that getting the FW right is absolutely vital. Since the FW is the thing which meets the air first and affects how the air travels past the car, getting that right is surely fundamental to getting the EBD/diffusor in general to work properly?

[ell66]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.
Right now, i think they have a strong front end, but need to focus on a new upper diffuser and the ebd.

You surprise me Ringo. I would have thought that getting the FW right is absolutely vital. Since the FW is the thing which meets the air first and affects how the air travels past the car, getting that right is surely fundamental to getting the EBD/diffusor in general to work properly?

of course its vital....but he's saying the macs apear to allready have a strong front end, and clearly the primary focus needs to be on the ebd.

[PlatinumZealot]

what is hampering Mclaren?
why are they suddenly 25 sec off the race leader?
IS it the blown diffusor which is causing this problem?

I honestly think that the Engineers at mclaren don't have the same understanding of aerodynamics as the engineers at Ferrari and RedBull. Some little edge that mclaren don't have.

Wow, however did they come up with the f-duct then, something that the engineers at Ferrari and Redbull have copied.

Back in reality the difference is simply the way the teams approach upgrading the cars. Red Bull and McLaren have both gone down the incremental upgrade route, bringing a little bit of an upgrade to each and every race, whereas Ferrari have gone the major upgrade route whereby their car stagnated for several races before they brought out a big upgrade. Now they've got that big upgrade working they've taken a big step forward, but they've lost out in previous races whilst Red Bull and McLaren brought home the points.

We'll see at the end of the year which approach is right.

Mclaren's understanding is very different. Look on the Diffuser, Mclaren like a big gaping barn door. If it works fine. But it's just a different understanding. Mclaren's understanding does not seem to translate well to the Ferrari REdBull style.

[marcush.]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.
Right now, i think they have a strong front end, but need to focus on a new upper diffuser and the ebd.

Button seemed to have issues following Hamilton through Nordkurve too closely ...
So at least in traffic conditions they could make use of it.

[timbo]

Button seemed to have issues following Hamilton through Nordkurve too closely ...
So at least in traffic conditions they could make use of it.

Why do you thing wing flex has anything to do with ability to follow another car in traffic?
IMO if anything it should make matters worse.

[marcush.]

Button seemed to have issues following Hamilton through Nordkurve too closely ...
So at least in traffic conditions they could make use of it.

Why do you thing wing flex has anything to do with ability to follow another car in traffic?
IMO if anything it should make matters worse.

Not per se ..but being able to generate more front downforce at higher speeds should /could help your ability to avoid understeer ...

[timbo]

Not per se ..but being able to generate more front downforce at higher speeds should /could help your ability to avoid understeer ...

But if produced DF is positive feedback function (more DF->more bending->more DF) the wing must be much more sensitive to the air perturbation.

[marcush.]

And this would explain why Redbull is not able to show its speed in traffic!

we have seen Webber and Vettel really struggling to make inroads when not starting from the front,did we?

[timbo]

And this would explain why Redbull is not able to show its speed in traffic!

we have seen Webber and Vettel really struggling to make inroads when not starting from the front,did we?

Well, I'd like to see that as a proof of how smart I am , but clearly there can be much more than front wing attitude.

[ringo]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.
Right now, i think they have a strong front end, but need to focus on a new upper diffuser and the ebd.

You surprise me Ringo. I would have thought that getting the FW right is absolutely vital. Since the FW is the thing which meets the air first and affects how the air travels past the car, getting that right is surely fundamental to getting the EBD/diffusor in general to work properly?

I think the front end is very strong in terms of down force, which is what i think the flexing benefits more than it does flow conditioning.
The front wing affects everything behind it yes, we don't know to what extent, but lowering that very same wing by 15mm or so, wont change much behind the car. It changes how much df the wing produces, but it's rearward effects on the car shouldn't change much i guess. The end plate designs are more critical to the flow to the rear and sides nowadays, than the fully understood and optimized centre parts.

So they should model a wing first in a naturally flexed position, 15mm lower than the norm, then run it in the wind tunnel and find the effects, Which is more direct than wasting time figuring out how it flexes. If it gains more than the ebd the give it more attention.

The sections that i think are most critical to rearward flow are the end plates and the area of the wing bounded by the green lines. Most teams more or less have fully mastered this area. Every where else gets it's flow mashed up by the wheels, which ironically happens to be where most of the flexing takes place.


Also the flexi wings can allow more air inn the brake ducts, meaning smaller, lower ducts can be used. Not much difference for the radiators though.

It's best Mclaren get to the point and run the thing lower in the tunnel instead of tinkering around figuring how to get the thing lower.

Other than that, the ebd has more mystery and side effects surrounding it, than running a wing lower. It's the area that can give more gains in more aspects than a front wing that lowers only at high speeds.
In fact the flexi wing may be Redbull's answer to the Mclaren snow plow, and Mclen may go in circles doing it.

[marcush.]

I think the brakeduct aspect is valid even if the extra air is going in just before the brake is applied..
as for the radiatorair..I´d think at high speed you will always have enough air as long as the opening to the sidepod is not closed off completely..

[Richard]

They need to figure out how much the wing in the flexed position gives them before they pursue it.

It's best Mclaren get to the point and run the thing lower in the tunnel instead of tinkering around figuring how to get the thing lower.

As if by magic, here's a quote from Paddy Lowe:

"What we are doing at the moment is working really hard to try to understand it and see if it's worth performance to us and whether we can also deliver that."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 864322.stm

[dren]

Is the wing actually flexing or is the car as a whole running lower to the ground?

[peroa]

Noble and Sarah Holt tweeted today that a lot of new floors arrived in the Mac garage.