Teams working together

[SiLo]

The point is that it creates an unfair advantage for certain teams on the grid. All teams should be acting independently from each other.

Ricciardo going for fastest lap for a send off is a viable excuse, but it's pretty weak. Ultimately if Red Bull feel that way they should use Perez to do it instead and sacrifice points to achieve it.

[n_anirudh]

There is nothing unfair here - given so many precedents in the past.
Michael Schumacher helping Vettel in Brasil 2012? There was not collaboration between teams.
Its a human/friendship - call it whatever you want -it does happen.
Mercedes pitcrew not pulling back on the hydraulic lines in 2021 making Redbull cars take on a squarish entry to the pit box - this is still unsportsmanlike.
If the 9 teams gang up on a single team and create a block to prevent 2 drivers going at it - that is fair too - it happened in Monza 2020 in quali.
Ricciardo could have disobeyed any order or intentionally messed up the lap.

Get on with it

[basti313]

The point is that it creates an unfair advantage for certain teams on the grid.

No it does not. Everyone has the chance to go for a second team and everyone drops his drivers in other teams. Or do you think Bearman will be in the Haas without a Ferrari contract in the background?
If I am not mistaken Ocon still has a Merc contract.

All teams should be acting independently from each other.

They are not and can not by the rules. As long as the rules clearly support parts and engine exchange, there will never be acting independently. Williams voted over years with Merc...Haas is basically using Ferrari infrastructure...

Ricciardo going for fastest lap for a send off is a viable excuse, but it's pretty weak. Ultimately if Red Bull feel that way they should use Perez to do it instead and sacrifice points to achieve it.

Where is the proof that RedBull was feeling in any way?
If I would be Dan, I would have feelings towards McLaren even more

[MYsee]

If the two were working together, you'd think it would happen more often ...

If you are going to gripe over teams working together, it has to be more about parts buying and teams not developing their own.

[Wouter]

I assume Haas is also a Red Bull team because one of their drivers, Magnussen, set the fastest lap on lap 54 when he was in 19th place,
but he lost it to tracklimits. He was certainly ordered by the parent team RBR to set the fastest lap, because he himself
would not get that extra point in 19th place.

[PapayaFan481]

Imagine we get to Abu Dhabi, Lando needs to win with Max finishing lower than 3rd. In the race Lando leads, Piastri second, Lewis 3rd and Max is closing on him..... Max goes for his typical dive bomb move..... What does Lewis do??

Ah, the old Timo Glock scenario.

Or a variation on Senna-Prost

[TFSA]

I've said it before and I've said it again: You can't build a conspiracy around something which happens regularly and naturally.

The reality is that backmarkers occasionally go for fastest lap if they have nothing to lose. The reasons are various: Because they have nothing better to do, because they want a bit of media attention, because of glory or for personal reasons (Ricciardo might have driven his last race, and he wanted to stick it to the Maccas). Magnussen went for it at Singapore as well (although he might not have if it wasn't for the puncture). Stroll attempted recently as well if i recall, but was too slow. It's not a rare occurence.

Other people have also provided examples of drivers helping friends. Alonso has also helped Max in the past, likely for no other reason than he wanted to stick it to Hamilton.

Fact is sometimes teams help or hinder each other - across the entire grid that is. And since it happens between all the other teams, it is also gonna happen with RB/VCARB. There's also plenty of examples of those two teams getting in each others way. You can't ignore every time it happens to other teams, and then press the alert button every time it happens between the two teams who happens to be co-owned. You need supporting evidence.

And just to be clear: Natural distrust and dislike of the fact that Red Bull has two horses (or well, technically four) in the race is completely fine! There's nothing wrong with that!

However, claiming that the teams are deliberately working together - without any reliable evidence whatsoever - is not. It's a direct accusation of cheating without any evidence to back it. And that is what OP did here - and it's completely unacceptable in my book.

[TFSA]

As to answer the question on why the FIA haven't clamped down on it: They have, as hard as they can.

But there's just some things that are out of their reach.

For one, they can't force Red Bull to sell their team, neither directly, nor by changing the rules. This is due to competition laws, and the FIAs history with the EU. Unless there's direct evidence of collusion, the FIA doesn't stand a snowmans chance in hell in court if they tried to ban Red Bull from owning two teams in the competition, because it would massively devalue Red Bulls investment into the team over the past 20 years, causing them big economic damage. So unless something tangible turns up which the FIA can use, they have to let Red Bull carry on with their business for now.

As for the other cases mentioned: I'm sure the FIA is doing their best. But no system is perfect, and keeping an eye on absolutely everything is impossible.

[SiLo]

Apparently the drivers don't have contracts with Carb, all drivers are contracted to RBR, which seems like a conflict of interest.

[Wouter]

Apparently the drivers don't have contracts with Carb, all drivers are contracted to RBR, which seems like a conflict of interest.

.
Ricciardo had a contract with RBR for 2023 and was on loan for AlphaTauri

and in 2024 he has a contract with VisaCashappRB

[bluechris]

Contract's don't mean nothing, next year if Leclerc will be behind bearman for whatever reason, you think bearman will make Leclerc life difficult? Well no, he will step aside like a good boy thinking long term his Ferrari future.
It is what it is for me. More crucial is what any driver feels for a team, than sister teams and all the fuzz that happened with Riccardo where i don't see any wrong doing especially if it is his last race.

[SiLo]

Apparently the drivers don't have contracts with Carb, all drivers are contracted to RBR, which seems like a conflict of interest.

.
Ricciardo had a contract with RBR for 2023 and was on loan for AlphaTauri

and in 2024 he has a contract with VisaCashappRB

Thanks for the clarification.

[Espresso]

It's stupid and ridiculous that Red Bull can own two teams and have both contributing to a common goal. In 2021 I'd argue Alpha Tauri played a bigger role than VCARB have this year but only because they had a more competitive car. Tsunoda/Gasly would race Mercedes harder (Turkey), they would dive out of the way for Verstappen (Qatar).

It's unsustainable but there's no push from the sport bar McLaren to force Red bull to sell one team. It's not like they'd be in financial difficulty if they were forced to sell it either. In fact they were considering offers less than 12 months ago but nobody reached valuation so do they even really want to keep it?

If Norris and Verstappen finish 1-2 in every remaining race and sprint then max wins by 1 point I believe.. so yea every point counts

In a past era F1 cost a shitload of money and almost dropped to 9 teams. The FIA big sad puppy eyes looked towards Red Bull that took the financial burden and take a second Team under their wings. Nobody else Volunteered.
That is how Red Bull ended with two teams. That it decades later became profitable was not foreseen.
Don’t blame Red Bull. It has cost them a lot of money to keep RB running!

[organic]

It's stupid and ridiculous that Red Bull can own two teams and have both contributing to a common goal. In 2021 I'd argue Alpha Tauri played a bigger role than VCARB have this year but only because they had a more competitive car. Tsunoda/Gasly would race Mercedes harder (Turkey), they would dive out of the way for Verstappen (Qatar).

It's unsustainable but there's no push from the sport bar McLaren to force Red bull to sell one team. It's not like they'd be in financial difficulty if they were forced to sell it either. In fact they were considering offers less than 12 months ago but nobody reached valuation so do they even really want to keep it?

If Norris and Verstappen finish 1-2 in every remaining race and sprint then max wins by 1 point I believe.. so yea every point counts

In a past era F1 cost a shitload of money and almost dropped to 9 teams. The FIA big sad puppy eyes looked towards Red Bull that took the financial burden and take a second Team under their wings. Nobody else Volunteered.
That is how Red Bull ended with two teams. That it decades later became profitable was not foreseen.
Don’t blame Red Bull. It has cost them a lot of money to keep RB running!

Red bull are loaded. Besides, it's quite possible they made more value back through advertising from running the 2nd team than they lost. Mercedes estimated not so long ago that they were profiting through brand exposure etc over €1bn per year in the hybrid era despite spending 400m+ annually. Having 2 teams - albeit with the second team named differently - does increase the exposure of red bull. Additionally, until recently the junior team was cheap to run, and a very convenient place to train up drivers that other teams don't have. It also gives 2 votes on any issue that is raised compared to other teams' 1. Value comes in lots of ways.

It wouldn't be outrageous to ask red bull to sell VCARB at this point. Their rescue of the team was valiant etc but they did it not out of the goodness of their heart but also opportunity. And that was not recent anymore.

The competition is fiercer than ever with margins getting tighter in recent years. Having this extra team in their back pocket that other teams cannot replicate maybe becomes even more of an issue over time

[ispano6]

Mercedes has Williams, Ferrari Haas, Red Bull has VCARB. Aston, McLaren, Sauber, and Alpine could have their alliances, but it wouldn't really serve McLaren to have an ally take away a fastest lap point from their own driver now will it!

But really, there is nothing wrong with Dan or Yuki or KMAG wanting to go for fastest lap if they aren't in the points. The fastest lap record has been around forever. You can't have a fastest lap, and then award a point to the fastest driver in the top 10 position who didn't set the fastest lap. That's plain stupid. So really it only makes sense to give a point to the driver IF he's in the points, since F1 is so stingy about points and makes a big deal about earning 1 single point. Teams have gone bankrupt just trying to attend a race only to go home EVERY SINGLE RACE WITH NO POINTS. So yeah, fastest lap should be awarded to the driver who sets the fastest lap, points or not. And besides, McLaren has no ground or proof, since Ric can simply say he had something against McLaren and would do everything possible to prevent Lando from getting the WDC. The two did not get off to a good start (remember the "I will end you!"). It's not a coalition championship, it's personal!