2023 Aston Martin | Aramco | Cognizant F1 Team

[KimiRai]

Regarding the drivers situation, an often repeated saying lately is that Aston need two top drivers in order to succeed. I'm not sure whats the benefit of having two of those in the team as history has shown it can become counterproductive with increased tension and drivers taking points off eachother. The model that has worked best is a great first driver for the driver's championship and a second driver that helps the team in constructors, almost all domination cycles were had with this (and that's Red Bull's effectively as well). The problem, admittedly, is that Lance's current form is so low that it doesn't fill that second driver role as he's not scoring enough points for the constructors. In my opinion the most effective second seat at Aston would be an improved Lance closer to Fernando but not enough to bother him too much. I'd hope for that to happen in 2024 with a better pre-season without injuries and setbacks, but if Lance by that point is still at the same poor level then I would agree with looking for another driver.

I find it strange that a lot of Alonso fans are striking at Stroll currently. If anything they should defend him because Fernando is comfortable this way and he works best as a leading force with the team fully behind him.

[diffuser]

I think he means like the weaknesses are still the same but they still have a little improved hes also talking about drag and they lost a little but its still there

At Monza qualifying, like Silverstone, their weakness has been high-speed corners. They loose too much time in turns 6,7 and 11. It isn't draggy as before.

Now what I see on the screen is, Alonso trying to rub off more speed in the middle of the corner, then accelerate harder on the way out. I think he's trying to use the back grip to come out of the corners with more speed....so I'm guessing, if he doesn't do that, he'll end up with understeer in those high speed corners.

I don't understand the thought process here.

High speed corners are the weakness. I agree. But saying the rest of the calendar will suit their car is a bit strange with Suzuka/Qatar/Austin as the next 3/4 GP. Singapore will be strong, if not something has gone terribly wrong. If Monza wasn't good I have my doubt about Vegas/Mexico being good either. I'm not too sure about Brazil/Abu Dhabi.

That's 5/8 GP that, on paper and historically speaking aswell, should be weak for them. I don't get the thought process there.

For the record, I don't think that. For me it's one race at a time.

[scuderiabrandon]

At Monza qualifying, like Silverstone, their weakness has been high-speed corners. They loose too much time in turns 6,7 and 11. It isn't draggy as before.

Now what I see on the screen is, Alonso trying to rub off more speed in the middle of the corner, then accelerate harder on the way out. I think he's trying to use the back grip to come out of the corners with more speed....so I'm guessing, if he doesn't do that, he'll end up with understeer in those high speed corners.

I don't understand the thought process here.

High speed corners are the weakness. I agree. But saying the rest of the calendar will suit their car is a bit strange with Suzuka/Qatar/Austin as the next 3/4 GP. Singapore will be strong, if not something has gone terribly wrong. If Monza wasn't good I have my doubt about Vegas/Mexico being good either. I'm not too sure about Brazil/Abu Dhabi.

That's 5/8 GP that, on paper and historically speaking aswell, should be weak for them. I don't get the thought process there.

For the record, I don't think that. For me it's one race at a time.

I was referring to alonso's comments about the rest of the calendar suiting the car better

[AR3-GP]

Regarding the drivers situation, an often repeated saying lately is that Aston need two top drivers in order to succeed. I'm not sure whats the benefit of having two of those in the team as history has shown it can become counterproductive with increased tension and drivers taking points off eachother. The model that has worked best is a great first driver for the driver's championship and a second driver that helps the team in constructors, almost all domination cycles were had with this (and that's Red Bull's effectively as well). The problem, admittedly, is that Lance's current form is so low that it doesn't fill that second driver role as he's not scoring enough points for the constructors. In my opinion the most effective second seat at Aston would be an improved Lance closer to Fernando but not enough to bother him too much. I'd hope for that to happen in 2024 with a better pre-season without injuries and setbacks, but if Lance by that point is still at the same poor level then I would agree with looking for another driver.

I find it strange that a lot of Alonso fans are striking at Stroll currently. If anything they should defend him because Fernando is comfortable this way and he works best as a leading force with the team fully behind him.

I agree generally with your point. No one expects Lance to trouble Fernando but Lance needs to at least make himself useful. What if he could have formed a DRS train with Alonso to defend from Hamilton? He was nowhere to be found.

As it is currently, two races outside the points and they would have saved a massive amount of money by not fielding a second car in Zandvoort or Monza.

In truth, Aston martin had a great car at the beginning of the year and I had hoped to see a bit more "disruption" but they only had 1 driver capable of it.

[diffuser]

I don't understand the thought process here.

High speed corners are the weakness. I agree. But saying the rest of the calendar will suit their car is a bit strange with Suzuka/Qatar/Austin as the next 3/4 GP. Singapore will be strong, if not something has gone terribly wrong. If Monza wasn't good I have my doubt about Vegas/Mexico being good either. I'm not too sure about Brazil/Abu Dhabi.

That's 5/8 GP that, on paper and historically speaking aswell, should be weak for them. I don't get the thought process there.

For the record, I don't think that. For me it's one race at a time.

I was referring to alonso's comments about the rest of the calendar suiting the car better

If you remove the 3 high speed corners at Monza, you're left with a few full throttle sections and 3 chicanes. So the high speed corners make up a high percentage of Monza track time. So, maybe from that stand point, it's
the worst. When you throw in 5-10 other type corners, it reduces the percentage of high speed corners time to other track challenge's track time. It also forces the setups to add DF, which changes the dynamic. It also can bring tire wear into the equation.The tire wear at Monza isn't high. That's one of the reasons Ferrari was so strong.

[KimiRai]

[AR3-GP]

If I had to guess, the issue with the fast high speed corners is a floor sensitivity. Either the roll/pitching weakens the floor, or the steered tire wake disturbs the floor. This was an insidious problem for many Renault cars from 2017-2021. It had also been an issue for the Racing points cars before 2020.

[-wkst-]

As written above Schmidt wrote on the website and talked in the video blog about AM:
They are on the limit with the DF in high speed corners with a long radius. Once they go above the limit, they start to slide and that hurts the tyres a lot. In Zandvoort they cooked the tyres in S2 in the 2 high speed corners and for this reason they were also bad in the following 2 slow corners (traction). In Monza they went off throttle in high speed corners to not slide in the race, but that hurted them naturallyoin the following straights. However he also has no explanation why they didn't find time on the softs in Q3, Q1 and Q2 weren't too bad.

Furthermore he expects them way better in Singapore.

[diffuser]

If I had to guess, the issue with the fast high speed corners is a floor sensitivity. Either the roll/pitching weakens the floor, or the steered tire wake disturbs the floor. This was an insidious problem for many Renault cars from 2017-2021. It had also been an issue for the Racing points cars before 2020.

The car seems to be very sensitive to small changes in the sidepod undercut. This leads me to believe there is a connection between the sidepod undercut, the floor edge and wake/airflow from the front in corners. Like you it's a guess.

[scuderiabrandon]

If I had to guess, the issue with the fast high speed corners is a floor sensitivity. Either the roll/pitching weakens the floor, or the steered tire wake disturbs the floor. This was an insidious problem for many Renault cars from 2017-2021. It had also been an issue for the Racing points cars before 2020.

The car seems to be very sensitive to small changes in the sidepod undercut. This leads me to believe there is a connection between the sidepod undercut, the floor edge and wake/airflow from the front in corners. Like you it's a guess.

It also greatly affects floor fence vortex performance. This is why this is such a highly focused on area because you can get more out of the floor entirely by making positive tweaks to the sp undercut.

[peewon]

Singapore is the track remaining that best suits Aston Martin but AM will probably still not be the best car on the track. RB will probably still be faster and with 3 corners removed from the track and replaced by a straight, I expect Ferrari to be better as well. They are just as good in short corners as AM but they have better traction for straights, so a win is still a very long shot. They will have to fight to get on the podium.

It's 4 slow corners I think they've removed. Still it should be a good track in theory for both Aston and Alonso.

Yes, it should still be good. But I think the track changes move them closer to Ferrari a bit more because they seem to be better on straights. I expect them to be competitive and fight for podiums but would not consider them favorites for the race win.

[peewon]

Singapore will probably be the best chance of a non-RB victory this year (Monaco excluded). Let's see what Alonso can do

Singapore is the track remaining that best suits Aston Martin but AM will probably still not be the best car on the track. RB will probably still be faster and with 3 corners removed from the track and replaced by a straight, I expect Ferrari to be better as well. They are just as good in short corners as AM but they have better traction for straights, so a win is still a very long shot. They will have to fight to get on the podium.

Ferrari have major balance issues on high downforce circuits, especially in race trim. They are the team most likely to move away from max dwf config in SIngapore, because of this they will be compromised.

Aston, McLaren and Alpine should be strong in Singapore.

Ferrari were really good in Canada on race pace, the track I would consider closest to Singapore in terms of characteristics. I dont expect Mclaren to be very good. Alpine might be better than them because their only weakness seems to be PU related. I expect RB to be the best. Close fight for 2nd between AM and Ferrari with edge to Ferrari because of track changes. Followed closely by Merc and Alpine and then Mclaren.

[peewon]

Regarding the drivers situation, an often repeated saying lately is that Aston need two top drivers in order to succeed. I'm not sure whats the benefit of having two of those in the team as history has shown it can become counterproductive with increased tension and drivers taking points off eachother. The model that has worked best is a great first driver for the driver's championship and a second driver that helps the team in constructors, almost all domination cycles were had with this (and that's Red Bull's effectively as well). The problem, admittedly, is that Lance's current form is so low that it doesn't fill that second driver role as he's not scoring enough points for the constructors. In my opinion the most effective second seat at Aston would be an improved Lance closer to Fernando but not enough to bother him too much. I'd hope for that to happen in 2024 with a better pre-season without injuries and setbacks, but if Lance by that point is still at the same poor level then I would agree with looking for another driver.

I find it strange that a lot of Alonso fans are striking at Stroll currently. If anything they should defend him because Fernando is comfortable this way and he works best as a leading force with the team fully behind him.

Yeah I don't get it. I think a lot of it being driven by F1 media. There have been so many articles and discussions about Lance's performance and almost none of them give proper context. Fans start believing anything thats repeated enough times. I find it a bit weird honestly. He raced alongside Vettel for 2 seasons and I don't remember one article criticizing his performance.

[peewon]

Regarding the drivers situation, an often repeated saying lately is that Aston need two top drivers in order to succeed. I'm not sure whats the benefit of having two of those in the team as history has shown it can become counterproductive with increased tension and drivers taking points off eachother. The model that has worked best is a great first driver for the driver's championship and a second driver that helps the team in constructors, almost all domination cycles were had with this (and that's Red Bull's effectively as well). The problem, admittedly, is that Lance's current form is so low that it doesn't fill that second driver role as he's not scoring enough points for the constructors. In my opinion the most effective second seat at Aston would be an improved Lance closer to Fernando but not enough to bother him too much. I'd hope for that to happen in 2024 with a better pre-season without injuries and setbacks, but if Lance by that point is still at the same poor level then I would agree with looking for another driver.

I find it strange that a lot of Alonso fans are striking at Stroll currently. If anything they should defend him because Fernando is comfortable this way and he works best as a leading force with the team fully behind him.

I agree generally with your point. No one expects Lance to trouble Fernando but Lance needs to at least make himself useful. What if he could have formed a DRS train with Alonso to defend from Hamilton? He was nowhere to be found.

As it is currently, two races outside the points and they would have saved a massive amount of money by not fielding a second car in Zandvoort or Monza.

In truth, Aston martin had a great car at the beginning of the year and I had hoped to see a bit more "disruption" but they only had 1 driver capable of it.

I would disagree that Lance couldve done anything at Monza to better fight Lewis, the performance difference was too much and Lance is not the caliber of driver to overcome that. In the first half, Lance had a lot of bad luck outside his own performance that makes the points total and therefore his overall performance seem bad. I'll do a breakdown ...

Bahrain - 6th Did really well

Jeddah - Reliability retirement while running in 5th, not his fault

Australia - 4th did really well

Baku - 7th to Alonso's 4th. Not the strongest track for AM so did well

Miami - Team tried to get him into Q2 one set on newly surfaced track that evolved super fast. knocked out in Q1.

Monaco - Floor damage in quali meant race effectively over and he was trying too much to overcome and made mistakes. But even if he didnt make mistakes he would not have been to score any points due to damage in quali.

Spain - 6th did very well considering now AM really starts to fall back

So if you accept that hes not a tier-1 or even a tier-2 driver his performances in the first half have been in line with what you would expect from him. Bad luck and team errors have made the point differential seem worse. His performance has definitely slipped since the AM performance slump but you'd expect a lesser driver to struggle with a more difficult car. Its fair to say hes not great at pushing a mediocre car to it limit and makes mistakes. Its also fair to say hes not very good at coming through the field from the back. I think he might be feeling a bit of pressure as well because there has been lot of criticism.

I really dont think it holds back AM in any way. If anything, it might get them more WT time.

[AR3-GP]

I really dont think it holds back AM in any way. If anything, it might get them more WT time.

Yes that's the silver lining.