2019 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 15-17 November

[NathanOlder]

Up until the summer break Ferrari were lost with understanding their car and getting the most out of it. In Hungary they couldn't run a little more wing compared to the rest, as the rest were all running maximum wing.

At other circuits like Spa, Japan, Monza where the corners are long and fast Ferrari were able to run a little more wing to get closer to the RB and Merc in the corners and still dominate the straights such was their power advantage.

Yes, but "a little more wing" is different to what we've seen in Austin and Brazil. Ferrari had Monaco style rear wings there. Highest downforce.

Yeah true, to which most would say, what the hell are they doing? only to go and do it again 2 weeks later after their worst performance since Hungary.

[siskue2005]

You should have quoted his second answer to me as well. There he told that I was right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap, but the same couldn't simply be told about their acceleration towards finish line at the end of their out lap because we can't know which of the drivers were flat out as the ERS usage might be different.

He was refering to my detailed analysis when he wrote "precise speed readings". But it's clear that Vettel starts from lower speed and eventually is at higher speed.

You're right in the first case. he does simply out accelerate him there.
For the second case when they start the lap, you shouldn't read into it, because PUs are not flat out up until very late into the hill climb, becase it's not worth it to waste energy before the lap has even started. Last year it was only ferrari who was doing it for whatever reason and now they're all doing it.

Still what he says is different to what you claim

No, he wrote "you're right in the first case" and what he means is that I'm right about Vettel outaccelerating Max in the hot lap.

And he explains how he is doing that, we can all read that part too

[jumpingfish]

Allison: “I think they were still pretty useful on the straights,” “But not quite as marked as it was [Friday]
“They’re still a quick car on the straights..."
1. Ferrari turned off all their cheats but "still a quick car on the straights" as said Allison.
2. Ferrari so impudent/insolent and skipped TDs and run with their cheats.
3. There are no cheats and they do what they want because end of this season and Ferrari can use those final GPs as pre 2020 season testings.

Which version looks better?

[Capharol]

Allison: “I think they were still pretty useful on the straights,” “But not quite as marked as it was [Friday]
“They’re still a quick car on the straights..."
1. Ferrari turned off all their cheats but "still a quick car on the straights" as said Allison.
2. Ferrari so impudent/insolent and skipped TDs and run with their cheats.
3. There are no cheats and they do what they want because end of this season and Ferrari can use those final GPs as pre 2020 season testings.

Which version looks better?

nobody claimed they aren't a quick team ... but there is a big difference ones of a sudden AFTER the TD's came out, which raise more questions as answers.
and maybe Ferrari is throwing sand in eerybodies eyes by turning down the engine a bit and at the start of 2020 they have this advantage (which is actually senseless, because if you have nothing to hide you should use it).....

we can all spit out theories and assume anything possible, BUT FOR NOW .... i say Verstappen put it right (although a bit to blunt)

[LM10]

Allison: “I think they were still pretty useful on the straights,” “But not quite as marked as it was [Friday]
“They’re still a quick car on the straights..."
1. Ferrari turned off all their cheats but "still a quick car on the straights" as said Allison.
2. Ferrari so impudent/insolent and skipped TDs and run with their cheats.
3. There are no cheats and they do what they want because end of this season and Ferrari can use those final GPs as pre 2020 season testings.

Which version looks better?

nobody claimed they aren't a quick team ... but there is a big difference ones of a sudden AFTER the TD's came out, which raise more questions as answers.
and maybe Ferrari is throwing sand in eerybodies eyes by turning down the engine a bit and at the start of 2020 they have this advantage (which is actually senseless, because if you have nothing to hide you should use it).....

we can all spit out theories and assume anything possible, BUT FOR NOW .... i say Verstappen put it right (although a bit to blunt)

Good lord... why do people say that there is a big difference? Don’t you notice that the times Ferrari was MILES behind Mercedes and Redbull on downforce sections are over? They’ve matched Mercedes in downforce sectors in both Austin and Brazil! Leclerc even was faster than both Mercedes in Brazil. Verstappen was faster only by 7 hundreds in S2.
You’re right, I see a big difference and this difference surely being a Ferrari with pretty much downforce.

[Unf]

Current season showed that top speed is not enough to win championship right? Right.
So?
So ferrari is searching for downforce.
So?
So they sacraficed top speed.

Is it really that hard to understand for somebody?

[NL_Fer]

Maybe Ferrari did change something after the TD, but it looks like they are aiming for higher DF in the 2020 car.

[LM10]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

[NathanOlder]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

But why change the philosophy that dominated since the summer break?

All those pole positions, 3 wins that should have been at least 5 if not for bad starts/strategies.

Lets stop winning and make it hard for ourselves.

I just don't buy it.

[Juzh]

quali laps

P01 verstappen brazil 2019 q3 1.07.508 (high bitrate, might experience buffering)
https://streamable.com/4ig0z


P02 vettel brazil 2019 q3 1.07.631
https://streamable.com/7mn81


P03 hamilton brazil 2019 q3 1.07.699
https://streamable.com/av3k4


P04 leclerc brazil 2019 q3 1.07.728
https://streamable.com/ugpdp


P07 gasly brazil 2019 q2 1.08.770 - PB LAP
https://streamable.com/cj2id


and verstappen's PB lap from Q2
https://streamable.com/dpys6

[siskue2005]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

But why change the philosophy that dominated since the summer break?

All those pole positions, 3 wins that should have been at least 5 if not for bad starts/strategies.

Lets stop winning and make it hard for ourselves.

I just don't buy it.

Just leave it mate, no matter what convincing arguments is given there is no use...it seems most are Blissfully oblivious.

[LM10]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

But why change the philosophy that dominated since the summer break?

All those pole positions, 3 wins that should have been at least 5 if not for bad starts/strategies.

Lets stop winning and make it hard for ourselves.

I just don't buy it.

Because Ferrari needs and wants to increase their race pace. Doesn’t help you when you get pole, but are nowhere in the race. The season is over and it would be foolish not to collect data by putting most downforce on the car and looking how it behaves.

Or maybe you can answer me this question: Ferrari’s power advantage has been supposed to be at about 50 hp, hasn’t it? How is it possible to lose such a big chunk of power and mount the Chinese wall on the back, but still top the speed traps?

[Wass85]

quali laps

P01 verstappen brazil 2019 q3 1.07.508 (high bitrate, might experience buffering)
https://streamable.com/4ig0z
https://streamable.com/4ig0z

P02 vettel brazil 2019 q3 1.07.631
https://streamable.com/7mn81
https://streamable.com/7mn81

P03 hamilton brazil 2019 q3 1.07.699
https://streamable.com/av3k4
https://streamable.com/av3k4

P04 leclerc brazil 2019 q3 1.07.728
https://streamable.com/ugpdp
https://streamable.com/ugpdp

P07 gasly brazil 2019 q2 1.08.770 - PB LAP
https://streamable.com/cj2id
https://streamable.com/cj2id

and verstappen's PB lap from Q2
https://streamable.com/dpys6
https://streamable.com/dpys6

Hamilton had a very poor last corner on his prep lap, you can hear him having to come off the power. I wonder if it cost him at all going up the hill.

That Red Bull sounds amazing, dare I say it but rivals the V8.

[LM10]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

But why change the philosophy that dominated since the summer break?

All those pole positions, 3 wins that should have been at least 5 if not for bad starts/strategies.

Lets stop winning and make it hard for ourselves.

I just don't buy it.

Just leave it mate, no matter what convincing arguments is given there is no use...it seems most are Blissfully oblivious.

Those arguments may be convincing to you, but not to another. The forum doesn’t exist for you to convince me and end the discussion the simplest way possible.

[basti313]

So Ferrari with Monaco-like rear wing + reduced power from PU, but still fastest on the straights and in acceleration phases without DRS? Some people talk like Ferrari had an afterburner before.

All we know is that in Austin and Brazil Ferrari had a much bigger rear wing than the others and that they were marginally quicker on the straights, but still fastest accelerating.
Everyone is free to take conclusions, but even Tanabe told that you can't differ between lack of speed due to downforce or reduced power.

But why change the philosophy that dominated since the summer break?

All those pole positions, 3 wins that should have been at least 5 if not for bad starts/strategies.

Lets stop winning and make it hard for ourselves.

I just don't buy it.

Because downforce, tire usage and strategy are strongly linked to each other. And many of the driver errors or strategic lost races are simply down to too much tire usage as Merc is simply all over them once they are in a long stint.

Without Lec running off Ham in Monza or Vet being sacrificed to hold up Ham in Spa, they would not have won these races. With the judging being stable Monza would have been a second Montreal and in Spa Ham would have simply passed waving with catching Lec some laps after the pitstop without Vet costing him about 10sec in the race. I think taling about "domination" is somewhere between plain stupid and ignorance of the reality.

The same will happen today. Even if they run in the given order through the first lap (i do not think this will happen, my bet is on a crash amongth two of the first three) the Ferrari will have to stop early and will be a sitting duck on the Med. Even worse if they go for hard.