2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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organic wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 01:58
The only problems with engine are on Haas' side which is their own fault - down to procedures?
Procedures, cooling (of all fluids), vibrations due to poor installation and/or mounting point stiffness, running the PU too hard for too long... I'm sure there are other explanations as well :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Bottoming can also damage the PU.
A lion must kill its prey.

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F1NAC
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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This is gona be epic


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gordonthegun
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Location: Monza, Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF23

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"Frederic Vasseur, team principal of the historic Scuderia Ferrari

For the rest we cannot exclude further modifications to the mouth of the bottom, inlet side pod and front wing. While at the suspension level, although the dynamic department has been studying new, more effective solutions for several months, it is difficult to think of upheavals in the near future. There could be some tricks, yes, which at a mechanical level could guarantee superior management of the tires over long distances"

https://news.italy24.press/local/769100.html

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Image

Miss this car so much. What a crazy beast. Arguably the last car to be worthy of the name Ferrari.

Michael would have won the WDC in July with this beast.

f1316
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Xyz22 wrote:
12 Aug 2023, 15:20
https://www.formula1.it/admin/fotoscu/f ... 8-76-1.jpg

Miss this car so much. What a crazy beast. Arguably the last car to be worthy of the name Ferrari.

Michael would have won the WDC in July with this beast.
There’s no doubt in my mind (and some great statistical analysis that shows) Michael would have won both ‘07 and’08 WDCs. He was streaks ahead of Massa in ‘06 and so wouldn’t have been close. We can debate whether or not Kimi suffered due to the switch from Michelin tyres, but regardless, his level at Ferrari was his level at Ferrari and Michael, as the prototype for the Bridgestones (which were essentially the’04 tyres), would have held an advantage regardless of his teammate. Add to that his experience and consistency and it’s clear that forcing Michael out earlier than he wanted was a major blunder.

Why talk about that now? It’s nice to remember the good times :D if there is any relevance to today’s racing, it’s that Mercedes, Aston Martin (and other teams) should think twice about hastening Hamilton and Alonso’s departures from the sport. Even if it’s true (and not sure it is) that they’ve lost a few tenths in ultimate pace, there probably aren’t any young drivers more capable than those two at taking the fight to Max over the course of season if given the right car.

I guess I’m way off topic now.., :lol:

Henri
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Ferrari boss wants ham at ferrari.. i think ham signs for them 2025

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Old news rehash, the approach was made months ago in a bid to generate enough media buzz for new technical personel to be interested in coming to Maranello. Hamilton will retire in Mercedes, that much is clear.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
15 Aug 2023, 14:52
Old news rehash, the approach was made months ago in a bid to generate enough media buzz for new technical personel to be interested in coming to Maranello. Hamilton will retire in Mercedes, that much is clear.
That new tech person is Loic Serra from Mercedes. Interesting isn't it!
A lion must kill its prey.

Xyz22
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Meanwhile Vasseur released an interview with La Gazzetta. Long story short he confirmed the 2024 Ferrari will be very different.

A car capable of fighting for at least a win would be a miracle. Let's hope so.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Andi76 reported last year that Ferrari's sidepod concept became obsolete with the introduction of TD39 and 2023 floor rule change, with the original source being a technical person from Ferrari. There were no further details and we suspected it didn't have much to do with the bath tubs but rather with rear tyre squirt management and the inwash philosophy as a whole with raised floor edges.

F1-75 behaved excellently in all tracks before TD39 kicked in, even if there were traces of poor tyre warm-up/usage in colder conditions. Launch-spec SF-23 behaved great on very rare occasions and always very poorly in races compared to Qualifying. SF-23 EVO may have lost some pace in Q, but seems to be better in races since Canada - when the team doesn't mess up the strategy or tyre usage. It would indeed seem that with this rules set the wide downwash sidepods provide critical aerodynamic predictability when it comes to tyre squirt management.

The only question that now remains is - why did Binotto and Sanchez decide to go with original SF-23 design in any case, since the team was well aware of the problems they will encounter? Did they not care at all or did they do it on purpose? :?
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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F1NAC
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Aug 2023, 09:36
Andi76 reported last year that Ferrari's sidepod concept became obsolete with the introduction of TD39 and 2023 floor rule change, with the original source being a technical person from Ferrari. There were no further details and we suspected it didn't have much to do with the bath tubs but rather with rear tyre squirt management and the inwash philosophy as a whole with raised floor edges.

F1-75 behaved excellently in all tracks before TD39 kicked in, even if there were traces of poor tyre warm-up/usage in colder conditions. Launch-spec SF-23 behaved great on very rare occasions and always very poorly in races compared to Qualifying. SF-23 EVO may have lost some pace in Q, but seems to be better in races since Canada - when the team doesn't mess up the strategy or tyre usage. It would indeed seem that with this rules set the wide downwash sidepods provide critical aerodynamic predictability when it comes to tyre squirt management.

The only question that now remains is - why did Binotto and Sanchez decide to go with original SF-23 design in any case, since the team was well aware of the problems they will encounter? Did they not care at all or did they do it on purpose? :?
Aren't teams already working on next years car after the first race or so? Could it be so because tech. dept was a bit limited knowledge wise and couldn't adapt on time. IE needing more time to understand different concept and more $$ spent budgetcap vise and WT hours?

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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F1NAC wrote:
16 Aug 2023, 10:17
Aren't teams already working on next years car after the first race or so? Could it be so because tech. dept was a bit limited knowledge wise and couldn't adapt on time. IE needing more time to understand different concept and more $$ spent budgetcap vise and WT hours?
It's not really that early, but you do have early concept and philosophy checks in that period as far as I know. The deadlines for chassis and aero are around October-November, so in July-August they had plenty of time to take a different direction (teams are always studying different directions). The team managed to make a big change with sidepods between Jeddah or Australia and Spain, so clearly it's not impossible to do it in 1-2 months.

For whatever reason, the early goal for SF-23 was to reduce drag as much as possible (which was successful) and it looks to me like they accepted a peaky downforce design as a compromise. Tyre understanding and usage aside, the key personnel for aero development had to have understood the wrong compromise in doing so (it was reported Binotto was very much opposed to Vigna's order to do everything needed and making compromises just to drop the drag) so I don't think it was an oversight on their end. On the other hand, Binotto was quietly confident about their chances in 2023, so it's very confusing to understand and pin-point how they made such a massive miscalculation on expected performance of SF-23.

In any case, a different path has been set for 2024 and we can expect to see glimpse of it in Monza:

https://scuderiafans.com/f1-ferrari-sf- ... e-on-2024/

And this is another article, Vasseur's complete interview with Gazzetta dello Sport. I like what I read, there is a clear difference in managing style from Binotto and this style is better in general (no bs-excuses, transparency, cutting down on blaming culture, etc)

https://scuderiafans.com/2024-ferrari-f ... hilosophy/

Few interesting quotes:

Are you still focused on 2023, or are you already thinking about next year?

For this season, we stopped wind tunnel developments at the end of July, but we have already decided and are working on parts that we will carry through to Qatar or Austin. As for the car for 2024, we are still at the philosophical concepts stage. The numbers say you need to be aggressive in the design, but with simulations and equations, we’re already at the maximum. We need to think differently, find margins through which drivers can drive without always being on the limit. And the deadline for the new car isn’t the end of the year; we need to be ready for Bahrain in March. We have many months ahead of us.
What’s your relationship with the Ferrari top management like?

Frequent and good. Ferrari is a very famous company but has a reasonable size. I have dinner with Benedetto Vigna at least once a week, and I hear from John Elkann on the phone like an antibiotic, morning, lunch, and dinner. Having such a relationship is a huge advantage: if you need to make a decision, the process is very fast. When I was at Renault, for certain changes, you had to wait for the executive committee to meet; it took days and days. Here, a problem I bring up in the morning can have a response in the afternoon. I can’t speak for the past, but I’ve been impressed by the internal communication with the top management and their responsiveness.
There’s talk of other possible budget cap violations.

I don’t want to comment on something I don’t know. Speaking generally, what I can say is that last year’s punishment wasn’t severe enough, and if it happens again this time, it should be much more drastic. Considering that the technical advantage translates into a sporting advantage, the punishment should be sporting, not a fine. If you commit a handball foul in the penalty area in soccer, it’s a penalty, not a fine. The 10% cut in wind tunnel work is a joke: the major work has already been done, and what you don’t use for aerodynamics, you can spend on weight savings and more. If another irregularity is proven, a drastic punishment is needed for 2024, a one-year disqualification or something similar. We know that managing the budget cap is difficult, but we have perfect systems to control spending, and in the face of doubt, you can ask the FIA. And then another thing needs to be explained: a 5% violation isn’t small, it’s large. You have a budget set at 135 million, 80 just goes to personnel, then about twenty costs for the races (material you buy, brakes, and so on), building 4 cars at the start of the season costs another 20, and there are additional expenses. In the end, you’re between 120 and 125, more or less fixed costs for everyone, and you have less than 10 million left for development. So, you’ve exceeded by 2 million out of 7 or 8; it’s not 5% of the total 135 as they’ve said. Collectively, as F1, this needs to be resolved; we must not sweep it under the rug because in the end, someone could organize it behind closed doors. There’s a big difference between an unintentional mistake and a choice. Just like between someone who makes a mistake filling out their tax return and someone who establishes a company in some tax haven to evade taxes. We need to be tough; the future of the cost cap is at stake. If it ends with another small fine, then everyone will do the same thing; they’ll budget for the allocation to pay, and that’s it. The big manufacturers can afford it…
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

Sevach
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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F1NAC wrote:
16 Aug 2023, 10:17
Vanja #66 wrote:
16 Aug 2023, 09:36
Andi76 reported last year that Ferrari's sidepod concept became obsolete with the introduction of TD39 and 2023 floor rule change, with the original source being a technical person from Ferrari. There were no further details and we suspected it didn't have much to do with the bath tubs but rather with rear tyre squirt management and the inwash philosophy as a whole with raised floor edges.

F1-75 behaved excellently in all tracks before TD39 kicked in, even if there were traces of poor tyre warm-up/usage in colder conditions. Launch-spec SF-23 behaved great on very rare occasions and always very poorly in races compared to Qualifying. SF-23 EVO may have lost some pace in Q, but seems to be better in races since Canada - when the team doesn't mess up the strategy or tyre usage. It would indeed seem that with this rules set the wide downwash sidepods provide critical aerodynamic predictability when it comes to tyre squirt management.

The only question that now remains is - why did Binotto and Sanchez decide to go with original SF-23 design in any case, since the team was well aware of the problems they will encounter? Did they not care at all or did they do it on purpose? :?
Aren't teams already working on next years car after the first race or so? Could it be so because tech. dept was a bit limited knowledge wise and couldn't adapt on time. IE needing more time to understand different concept and more $$ spent budgetcap vise and WT hours?
I think the official word was that when they started working on the 2023 car the F1-75 was still a quite competitive machine, not the thing that was getting progressively overcome by Mercedes down the stretch.
If i remember correctly the rumors were that Ferrari decided it was time to focus 2023 when Charles put it in the wall in the French GP(July 24).
The car had a splashy "radical" floor update for the French GP, pretty much the last update that made you say "look at that" in 2022.
The Hungarian GP took place July 31 2022 where Ferrari botched the strategy badly but the car was still quite fast.

Then we had the summer break with Spa(aug 28) restarting the season, Ferrari underperformed at Spa and where anihillated by Verstappen starting in 14(?) position, but hey this could be one off(it wasn't).

So yeah everything leans towards Ferrari deciding to drop 2022 development and focus on 2023 before the summer break when their car was still good.
And maybe the underperformance at Spa and other places after that didn't give them a strong enough message when it really should've.

AR3-GP
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Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
04 Aug 2023, 10:15
AR3-GP wrote:
03 Aug 2023, 21:09
Loic Serra gardening leave is 18 months is it not? He wouldn't have impact until '26
We still don't know if it's him, but there is talk of two teams having a deal in place to lower the leave to 6 months, so he could join maybe already in January

Fred says Logic Serra cannot join before Jan 2025 but they would like sooner:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/ferrari-l ... al-agreed/
A lion must kill its prey.