HALO Approved for 2018

[NathanOlder]

and now there's a price on the drivers safety ? shame on you! we must stop at nothing to wrap these drivers in cotton wool!

[jjn9128]

I've been scrolling through this thread and as an engineer I can't get my head around why people would think the halo is a good solution. In my mind the halo is a compromise brought about by FIA politics in the wake of the Bianchi tragedy when the only sensible thing to do really is to ban open wheel racing. In safety terms it really doesn't make any sense to not have a closed canopy as opposed to a halo. Aesthetically: the same. I even saw some comments/FIA research that appear to show that an F-16 canopy is inferior to the halo and that the halo is so fantastic because "it can tackle a london bus". Who is interested in london busses anyway, the only thing that matters is that a potential lethal impact is absorbed. Out with the halo, in with the canopy please; especially on cold days like today.

Lordy, lets not start all over again! When you start a post with "as an engineer", it looks like you're saying your opinion is more worthy - there are lots of engineers here.

[TwanV]

I think you need to read/view the fia documents. they are very clear that Bianchi's accident wasn't part of it. They were already busy with head protection even before surtees his accident (on request by the teams and drivers).

As an engineer you must know that a plastic screen or canopy is no match for a solid titanium roll bar. There is a FIA presconference on here somewhere, just watch it.

Well let's not have an argument about the power of wind-screens since every car apart from open-wheelers have one. How many cars/jets have a solid titanium bar instead? It's just bad spin Jolle, really.

If cars were build like airplanes, they would weigh 200kg and made of tinfoil. One crash and you're dead.

A f16 canopy is build to withstand a 1kg bird at 600 km/h (give or take), not a F1 crash, where a car rides over you or you get wedged under boarding. Also, a canopy costs around ten times that of the halo plus it would need replacement with every small crash, next to all of the questions of rain, dirt, airconditioning and driver retraction.

Nothing personal but aeronautical engineering and F1 are closely tied, where tinfoil comes in the picture I don't know.
Let's do the math, 1kg at 600 km/h is 2.8*10^4 J of energy to be absorbed. Let's assume an allowed deflection of the screen of about 10cm (reasonable from slow-mo videos) that is 5.2*10^5 N of force to be absorbed by your canopy for that birdstrike at mach .6. In contrast, a stationary F1 car on top of that same canopy would lead to a force of about 6000 N.
Calculating this the other way around, let's assume a dead-on impact speed of about 200km/h, than allowed mass for that criterion is 170 kg which is considerably more than a wheel would weigh. In fact this is proven by FIA's own tests. Sure if you don't allow the canopy to deform on impact the bar wins, but I don't see any reason why that restriction is necessary. Costwise you might have a point, wipers might need to be added, and some defogging device (which is not the same as AC). Driver retraction is as difficult now with the halo as with a canopy. But by god we at least have cars that do not look like dirt-racers .

[TwanV]

I've been scrolling through this thread and as an engineer I can't get my head around why people would think the halo is a good solution. In my mind the halo is a compromise brought about by FIA politics in the wake of the Bianchi tragedy when the only sensible thing to do really is to ban open wheel racing. In safety terms it really doesn't make any sense to not have a closed canopy as opposed to a halo. Aesthetically: the same. I even saw some comments/FIA research that appear to show that an F-16 canopy is inferior to the halo and that the halo is so fantastic because "it can tackle a london bus". Who is interested in london busses anyway, the only thing that matters is that a potential lethal impact is absorbed. Out with the halo, in with the canopy please; especially on cold days like today.

Lordy, lets not start all over again! When you start a post with "as an engineer", it looks like you're saying your opinion is more worthy - there are lots of engineers here.

Sorry mate, you're right. Just a bit frustrated with the current state of affairs.

[jagunx51]

Sainz reveals Halo rain visibility concern

Carlos Sainz Jnr revealed he couldn’t see it had started to rain during yesterday’s test because the Halo prevented the drops from landing on his visor.

“Today when it was starting raining a bit, the rain, you couldn’t see it on the visor,” said Sainz at the end of yesterday’s test. “The Halo was not allowing the rain drops to go onto the visor.
“So you were not really seeing if it was raining or not. You were just feeling it in your hands, in your ass to see how the grip was.”

This is likely to be more of a problem in light rain conditions, as Sainz explained. “This kind of rain sometimes as drivers it really bothers us because you don’t know if you can actually push 100% or not.”

“You have to guess it with the pit wall and see how much rain there was because for us. Our visor was completely dry and outside it was raining. So a bit tricky there.”

However Sainz said visibility was “not an issue” on the whole with the Halo. “After two laps you don’t see it any more you just see through it.”

Sainz ended the day sixth-quickest overall while team mate Nico Hulkenberg set the fourth-fastest time.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/02/27/sai ... y-concern/

[NathanOlder]

Another thing the FIA didn't think about ?

[jagunx51]

Gasly tore his race suit on Halo winglet

Pierre Gasly said he tore his racing suit on the winglet which had been fitted to his Halo when he got into his car during today’s test.

“I don’t like it, it’s just a big mess to get in the car and get out,” he told media including RaceFans after today’s test. “My suit is already broken.”

“It’s only the first day and I have many holes on the back,” he explained. “You have to be a lot backward to slide in the car, it’s quite weird. Now with all the winglets you have on the Halo you cannot really pull to get out, you can’t really touch it.”
“It’s quite weird conditions but nothing really important,” he added. “I just prefer the old cars, that’s it.”

The Toro Rosso driver admitted he isn’t a fan of the new development but said it didn’t cause him any problems once he was behind the wheel.

“To drive with it, it doesn’t make a big difference,” he said. “In terms of visibility it’s the same.”

“Of course you see something on top of you which is a bit weird. But when you start to drive you are so focussed, you just pay attention to your driving, you don’t really see it.”

Getting out of the car is also “quite a big challenge” and could slow drivers’ escape in an emergency, said Gasly.

“It could take longer, that’s for sure. [But] it doesn’t worry me because I don’t think about any bad things. For sure I think it will be longer to get out, that’s what we have for this year. I don’t know if we’ll have it for the next couple of years but we’ll have to get used to it.”

https://www.racefans.net/2018/02/27/gas ... suit-halo/

Sorry to say, but I am sure someone will get injured because of Halo

[johnny comelately]

Just a question for everyone, if you can imagine racing in an F1 car and all the possibilities that brings and the forces involved, what would you rather: open as is; halo; canopy a la LMP1?

[Manoah2u]

Another thing the FIA didn't think about ?

more of a thing toro rosso didn't think about.
the moment i noticed the 'hanging' wing on the underside of the halo of the toro rosso, i thought of a couple of things, but all about safety;

1 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT severly hamper view
2 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to head trauma in the case of a collision having the driver 'headbump' the object
3 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to the driver when shearing off during accident
4 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT hamper entering and leaving the cockpit

and non-safety related

5 - how does that 'batwing' bring any aerodynamic benefit like that?

to all the above 1 to 4, i can only see that it is of substancial danger.
as for 5, i don't see that either, but im no engineer.

i see loads of danger with toro rosso's solution and from the get-go i am 100% sure that will be banned before melbourne. dare i even say it's meant to stretch boundaries and provoke to get it banned and clear up regulations? it might. and that's not tinfoil hat at all.

suits getting torn by a halo appendace? sounds really odd to me. offcourse the device must be thus so firmly attached that it doesn't shear off easily but also must have sharp edges that are so sharp it tears up a racing overall upon contact?



edit:

i now realise the damage is on the back? of the suit? HOW?????

[djos]

Another thing the FIA didn't think about ?

more of a thing toro rosso didn't think about.

Nope, this is 100% on the FiA for allowing teams to fit aero appendages to the halo, it was easily avoidable by mandating only fully enclosed aero sculpting allowed and no winglets. eg like RedBull have produced on the RB14.

[J.A.W.]

As for C.S.Jr's - "...you don't see it anymore, you just see through it." - driving with halo comment...

Oh dear.. IMO, that is a bit of a problem..
..since the illusion of the (very real) blindspot duly vanishing, due to the driver's view 'correction factor'..
(which human neuro-visual acuity naturally provides, & thus 'indicates' some - unseen - obstacle 'isn't there'),
..is surely, a predictable warning of a pending - 'this'll end in tears' - moment, to come... guess we'll see..

[Jolle]

Another thing the FIA didn't think about ?

more of a thing toro rosso didn't think about.
the moment i noticed the 'hanging' wing on the underside of the halo of the toro rosso, i thought of a couple of things, but all about safety;

1 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT severly hamper view
2 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to head trauma in the case of a collision having the driver 'headbump' the object
3 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT impose an immediate danger to the driver when shearing off during accident
4 - how does that 'batwing' does NOT hamper entering and leaving the cockpit

and non-safety related

5 - how does that 'batwing' bring any aerodynamic benefit like that?

to all the above 1 to 4, i can only see that it is of substancial danger.
as for 5, i don't see that either, but im no engineer.

i see loads of danger with toro rosso's solution and from the get-go i am 100% sure that will be banned before melbourne. dare i even say it's meant to stretch boundaries and provoke to get it banned and clear up regulations? it might. and that's not tinfoil hat at all.

suits getting torn by a halo appendace? sounds really odd to me. offcourse the device must be thus so firmly attached that it doesn't shear off easily but also must have sharp edges that are so sharp it tears up a racing overall upon contact?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW826B5WAAAqhwA.jpg

edit:

i now realise the damage is on the back? of the suit? HOW?????

1. The batwing is well outside the view of the driver (anything just above the horizon is blocked by the sun visor)
2. If you headbut the halo, your head must be loose from your body, a flimsy carbon piece is the least of your troubles
3. It’s a 20g part, driver is wearing a bulletproof helmet and a 3 ply nomex suit with two big carbon plates on his chest.
4. Not really a safety isssue?
5. Good chance it clears the turbulence for the driver a bit.

[NathanOlder]

Some people just see NO bad in the Halo at all. Jolle, your surname isn't Halo by any chance is it ?

Each day there seems to be more and more negatives coming out about the Halo

[Jolle]

Some people just see NO bad in the Halo at all. Jolle, your surname isn't Halo by any chance is it ?

Each day there seems to be more and more negatives coming out about the Halo

Apart from how it looks, no, I think its a well thought system, in use since safety was introduced in racing (the roll cage).

I want this on the car when my kids race in junior series.

Trying to make a small winglet into a serious health problem sounds a bit desperate.

[NathanOlder]

Some people just see NO bad in the Halo at all. Jolle, your surname isn't Halo by any chance is it ?

Each day there seems to be more and more negatives coming out about the Halo

Apart from how it looks, no, I think its a well thought system, in use since safety was introduced in racing (the roll cage).

I want this on the car when my kids race in junior series.

Trying to make a small winglet into a serious health problem sounds a bit desperate.

It just seems if it were up to you, you wouldnt let a person on the planet get into an open cockpit car without a Halo on top of it. whether its F1 or Formula Ford. God knows how your kids will get anywhere near a junior series when they have to pass through Karting first!
80-90mph without a Halo, Seat Belt or survival cell ! Death traps I tell you, death traps!! I live 5minutes from Buckmore Park and I always wondered why I see helicopters flying over often, must be all the dead bodies they try and remove each day.